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Starkey about to walk the plank?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Morninglover, Jul 3, 2020.

  1. Morninglover

    Morninglover Star commenter

    I have to say I hope so. For years I recommended his books to A Level students, and his TV programmes. When my daughter became interested in the Tudor period, guess whose books I bought her...:mad:

    But this, the latest questionable statement he has made, goes too far. At 75 he probably doesn't much care, but it's time for Cambridge University and the history 'world' to say goodbye to him. Perhaps he can find a desert island to share with Katie Hopkins?

    https://www.theguardian.com/culture...riticised-for-saying-slavery-was-not-genocide


    David Starkey widely criticised for 'slavery was not genocide' remarks
    Sajid Javid leads condemnation of historian’s ‘so many damn blacks in Africa’ comments


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...genocide-damn-blacks-live-Africa-Britain.html


    Historian David Starkey faces losing his University of Cambridge fellowship after outrage over his claims that 'slavery was not genocide' because 'so many damn blacks live in Africa and Britain'
    • Starkey said 'slavery was not genocide' in controversial remarks given Tuesday
    • Historian called Black Lives Matter 'entirely a product of white colonisation'
    • He made his comments in an interview with BeLeave founder Darren Grimes
    • Fitzwilliam College said the matter of Starkey's fellowship 'will be considered'
     
    emerald52 likes this.
  2. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

    It wasn't just what he said - his tone of voice as he said it......:(
     
  3. coffeekid

    coffeekid Star commenter

    I couldn't find a video without a dramatic title, but here you go.

     
  4. lunarita

    lunarita Senior commenter

    Darren Grimes nodding along in apparent agreement there.
     
    rararasputin likes this.
  5. rararasputin

    rararasputin Lead commenter

    Idiot. I agree that slavery wasn't genocide but then he had to go and say what he said next ...
     
    ACOYEAR8, lrw22, peter12171 and 6 others like this.
  6. rararasputin

    rararasputin Lead commenter

    lunarita likes this.
  7. LondonCanary

    LondonCanary Star commenter

    Are they no good now? Should I burn them?
     
    DrLinus, artboyusa, Kandahar and 3 others like this.
  8. alex_teccy

    alex_teccy Star commenter

    It’s obvious when he says “damn” he means many but perhaps a foolish choice of word in today’s climate.
    Cambridge was happy to back up Priyamvada Gopal with her “white lives don’t matter” but it seems Fitzwilliam College regard his marks as “indefensible”.
    That’s a double standard.
     
    George_Randle likes this.
  9. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    For an intelligent man, he appears to have no clue as to what an utterly inappropriate comment is, even though he's been castigated for them before.
     
    ajrowing, ilovesooty, Lidnod and 8 others like this.
  10. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    Indeed. You could argue it's not genocide (people were treated as commodities but the aim was not to exterminate them) but did he really say what I think he said after that? Wow!
     
    rararasputin likes this.
  11. WB

    WB Lead commenter

    I never liked him although he does seem no know his stuff.

    He’s thrown away his reputation in 2 words.

    I have no sympathy. The comment was racist.
     
  12. rararasputin

    rararasputin Lead commenter

    Yes and some people have pointed out that if you follow his logic, what about the Holocaust?
     
    hplovegame48 likes this.
  13. lunarita

    lunarita Senior commenter

    Africans were 'imported' to the Caribbean after slavery all but wiped out the indigenous populations, so genocide might not be so wide of the mark.
     
  14. Morninglover

    Morninglover Star commenter


    I regret having contributed, albeit in a very small way, to burnishing his reputation and adding to his income.
     
  15. Ivartheboneless

    Ivartheboneless Star commenter

    Never thought his TV stuff that astoundingly accurate either. History given with personal opinions on long dead people. Like he knows what their motives were and what they were thinking. Award him the order of the boot.
     
    peter12171 and Morninglover like this.
  16. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    There was a considerable gap between the Spanish wiping out the indigenous populations of islands such as Jamaica (partly through the introduction of European infections to which the indigenous peoples such as the Arawaks had no immunity, but largely through genocide) and the later discovery that the islands were ideal for growing sugar - for which African slaves had to be brought in as there were insufficient local workers available. Much the same for Haiti and the Dominican Republic.
     
    alex_teccy likes this.
  17. Morninglover

    Morninglover Star commenter


    Whilst I basically agree with that, remember that all history comes with 'personal opinions' whatever the historian may say!
     
  18. WB

    WB Lead commenter

    Wouldn’t there need to be a some element deliberate attempt to annihilate a group to classify it as genocide?

    It was the slave trade. That’s all that needs to said. It should be labelled as so, taught as so and judged as so.

    To call it genocide is a lie.
     
  19. rararasputin

    rararasputin Lead commenter

    Someone in a facebook History teachers' group posted a tweet about re-labelling aspects of the slave trade. Some of them I could agree with but slave trade = genocide? Nope. Plantations = death camps? Nope.
     
    WB likes this.
  20. Morninglover

    Morninglover Star commenter


    Post 12 makes a valid point about the related genocide of the Caribs etc.

    The fact that large numbers of young males (& some young females) were taken into slavery and transported across the Atlantic left many tribes in a desperate situation - which also might be thought of as a genocide.

    This article includes some definitions of genocide:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-11108059

    For example:

    "the UN Convention on Genocide in December 1948, which came into effect in January 1951.

    Article Two of the convention defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such":
    • Killing members of the group
    • Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
    • Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
    • Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
    • Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group"
    Slavery & the Atlantic Slave Trade seem to come under several points here.
     

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