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staff meetings

Discussion in 'Pay and conditions' started by tweetie888, Jun 12, 2011.

  1. I know there have been topics on this before but I need some advice.
    I work unitll 12 but every other week or more have to attend a staff meeting which starts 3.15 unpaid. I have spoken to the head about next year because I have the opportunity to work afternoons doing another job. My head is saying I cant because I will have to be available to attend at the very least half the staff meeting. Im really stuck as to what to do now because I could really do with the money from the 2nd job.
    Any advice

  2. mrkeys

    mrkeys Occasional commenter

    You do not have to do anything for the period for which you are unpaid. It is unreasonable to expect you to return for a meeting when your normal working hours stop at 12.00.
    Please check with your union but I am confidents thsi is correct
    You quite rightly state that you could have a part time job elsewhere.
    Where do these HT's get their ideas?
  3. P/T teachers cannot be asked to attend meetings on days when they do not work. However, they can be expected to attend them on days when they do work, even if they only work in the morning.
    Of course, P/T teachers can only be directed for a proportion of the 1265 equal to the proportion of a f/t week they work.
    Whether or not it is reasonable to expect you to attend a staff meeting when you only work the morning is one thing, but, I think the school is within their rights to expect you to attend.
  4. mrkeys

    mrkeys Occasional commenter

    Sorry. I have re read your original post. You state that your HT has told you that you cannot take another part time post elsewhere. This is completely unreasonable.
    You should contact your union.
    This is ridiculous.
  5. becktonboy

    becktonboy New commenter

    Agree with TC on this one - you cannot be asked to attend meetings on
    days when you do not work (STPCD Section 3 para 62.8) but unfortunately
    for you this provision is subject to the following paragraph which says
    "a part-time teacher may be required to carry out duties, other than
    teaching pupils, outside school sessions on any day that the teacher is
    normally required to be available for work (whether the teacher is
    normally required to be available for work for the whole of that day or
    for only part of that day)

    Look carefully at your directed hours (including play times,
    assembly times, parents' meetings INSET days etc) to see if you are
    working within your directed time limit (worked out pro rata). You
    probably attend full INSET days and parents' evenings? so you may find
    that you are coming close to your limit.
    You might ask your union
    to support you in arguing that the time between the morning session and
    the after school meeting is trappped time and that you should therefore
    be employed and paid for the whole of it bit it's pushing the argument a bit.....
    You might also see if your new 2nd school can't find a flexible way to employ you?
    By the way, OP, staff meetings are not 'unpaid', they are part of our contracted duties if they take place within the limits of directed time.

  6. mrkeys

    mrkeys Occasional commenter

    Becktonboy are you then saying that the OP's HT is correct in stating that it is not allowed to have another part time job elsewhere?
    Perhaps the current school could offer FT work on the day of the meeting?
    This does not seem a logical argument.
  7. As Bectonboy and TC rightly say, STPCD provides that part-time teachers may be directed to work outside school sessions on days when they do normally work (STPCD para 77.8). However, such directions must, however, be reasonable , both in the context of the general organisation of teachers? non-teaching duties and in the context of the statutory guidance given to head teachers to seek to avoid such situations wherever possible. The STPCD statutory guidance advises at para 163 that head teachers should ?try to minimise situations where part-time teachers are subject to directed time either side of a period when they are not required to be available for work?. This statutory guidance is reinforced by para 23 of the DCSF guidance.

    The key here is what is ?reasonable?. It might be reasonable to expect a teacher to attend for an occasion which happens only once per term ? for example to attend a parents' evening ? but not to attend every week for a staff or departmental meeting. That may well constitute discrimination against part-time teachers. I know you said this was a teaching day, but if you are asked to come in for a meeting on a day when you are not teaching, I believe STPCD states you have to be paid at the 1/1265 hourly rate.

    The head could not reasonably direct your attendance if you said you could not attend a meeting because of another part-time job because that would be to request you breach your contract with your other employer This is why allocation of hours for PT should be for full sessions. Consult your union.
  8. how close together are the two places of work? if you are required to attend at least 0.5 of staff meetings, then you could attend the second half of every meeting having spent the first half driving from your PM place of employment to your AM place of employment....
  9. mrkeys

    mrkeys Occasional commenter

    This is getting even more ridiculous.
    OP's HT has said that they can't take another PT job as they have to attend staff meetings at the school where they work mornings only.
  10. becktonboy

    becktonboy New commenter

    good points JohnRSS.
    The key words in your reply are of course 'reasonable' and 'try', closely followed by 'union'.
  11. langteacher

    langteacher Occasional commenter

    is it reasonable to ask someone to return to their place of work 3 hours or so after they finish? i don't think so
  12. thanks for all the replies everyone,
    I will try and speak to the head again and will contact the union, the 2nd job is not in teaching and would mean I wouldnt make it back to school for the 2nd part of the meeting. I would be able to attend parents evenings as I would book those nights off in advance.
  13. becktonboy

    becktonboy New commenter

    Tweetie, have you actually calculated your directed hours?
    How many hours do you have to be in school each morning? in most schools you have to be there 15 to 20 minutes before school begins.
    What is the length of each INSET day you attend?
    How long does each parents' evening last and how many do you have?
    I ask this because a quick calculation based only on:
    3.25 hours per day for 190 days, with 5 x 5.5 hour INSET days
    gives a total of 645 hours. Half of 1265 hours of directed time is 632.5 hours!
    You may not need to worry about going to those staff meetings at all......
  14. I have to be there 15 mins before the children arrive, then Im there until 15 mins after due to children being collected late
    I attend every INSET which is 5.5 hours
    and 1 parents evening a year which I did for 6 hours
    thats given me something to think about!

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