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Splitting the Labour party has been planned for some time?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by afterdark, Feb 24, 2019.

  1. afterdark

    afterdark Lead commenter

    I was watching the following video of a BBC interview uploaded in 2017,

    Go to about 18/19 mins in.Evan Davis clearly talks about Labour splitting.

     
  2. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Evan Davis clearly asks about Labour splitting.

    Not quite sure how either man has the power to split the Labour Party.
     
    sparklesparkle and nomad like this.
  3. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    19:54 It is two parties, the Liberal Life Party and the Corbyn [worshiping] Party.

    Spot on.

    There are sufficient socialism fans in the UK to vote Corbyn into the Labour Leader’s office, but not enough to vote him into 10 Downing St, and they are absolutely useless at persuading anybody else that voting for Labour candidates might be a good idea.

    Corbynism is a paranoid and inward-looking politics, obsessively focused on the relationships between and within the groups that make up the self-identified Left. It has little interest in - and still less to offer - the outside world. While Corbyn alienates most members of the public, enamoured socialism fans regurgitate a stock of commonplace platitudes to anyone who will listen, reassuring themselves that the leader of "their" party is a politician wonderfully unlike all others, and that they are right to support him, and that anything that others might suppose to have gone wrong must have been somebody else’s fault (if indeed it was wrong at all). That’s what they have been doing ever since he got onto the leadership ballot, and it’s what they will still be doing come the next General election, no matter how many talented and hard-working Labour MPs are reconciling themselves to the end of their political careers by leaving the party as a result of his ineptitude and his conscious ignorance of the anti-Semitism tearing a once-decent and noble political party apart.

    (Much of that comes from a 2017 article by Daniel Allington, with which I completely agree)
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  4. Ivartheboneless

    Ivartheboneless Star commenter

    Where do we get the balance? I prefer a fairly high level of "socialism" which we have not seen since Thatcher conned her way in. Having said that Labour, maybe need to be somewhere between Corbyn and Blair. Corbyn is not user friendly, has had a charisma bypass (like May) and he is anti EU. Even the titchy countries in Europe know they are better off in. Brexit, apparently "supported" by both Labour and Cons is a bloody great big steaming disaster, though the truth has been slow in coming out. If Labour had taken a remain stance at May's quickie election they might have stood a chance, but they talk about the "will of the people". People can be wrong, and often are, and they just seem to want all the outside interference to be forgotten about. Arron Banks should be prosecuted for starters, and all the Brexiters tried for treason for subverting the interests of the nation.
     
  5. HelenREMfan

    HelenREMfan Star commenter

    This is a significant step taken to split the Labour Party.
    Thatcher right hand man .jpg

    Too many of the HoC MPs do not reflect the grass roots level of Labour party members.
    Far too good a job was done on traditional Labour voters by the Right (Farage et al also) persuading them that the answer to all their woes etc was to stop/reduce whatever immigration There is evidence to suggest that some in the northern towns believed that leaving the EEC would see a reduction in immigration from the Indian sub continent!
    Corbyn has undertaken a huge task of travelling the country and to speak to people - so bypassing the constant effects of what the media does re Labour and him etc.

    This should be played at the beginning and end of every tv programme.

     
  6. afterdark

    afterdark Lead commenter

    on planet Nomad....meanwhile in the realworld

    As of 2017, the party was considered the "largest party in Western Europe" in terms of party membership, with more than half a million members.
     
  7. afterdark

    afterdark Lead commenter

    Who said it would be one of these two?
     
  8. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    So the problem is the wrong kind of voters, the wrong kind of MPs, the wrong kind of media and the wrong kind of referendum result?

    Memes aren't the same thing as facts, by the way.
     
  9. sparkleghirl

    sparkleghirl Star commenter

    At the moment it doesn't rate as a split, at least of the parliamentary party, though I think a split of some kind has been likely - and necessary - for a long time.

    Those who joined the Labour Party under Blair are likely candidates to ship out and join TIG. Those who left under Blair and returned for Corbyn and those who became involved in party politics for the first time under Corbyn are likely to stick with Labour. How this balances out we will see at the next GE, so maybe D-Day then.

    I wonder if the TIG will be hoping for a GE later rather than sooner. At present as a 'group' rather than a party their finances are a little opaque but a GE would force some transparency on them.
     
  10. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Well on a thread implying some sort of plan... I kind of figured the video you started the thread to demonstrate your idea... might have something to do with it.

    So if not them... why include that video? Why direct people to watch it and to go to a specific time stamp?

    In fact... why even bother starting this thread?
     
  11. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    Could it be that the OP didn't watch the video? That it came to their attention on social media? That it was cited on social media as evidence of a plot? A plot that Corbyn's ally Ruth George MP suggests is receiving "support from the state of Israel"? https://news.sky.com/story/ruth-geo...labour-quitters-are-backed-by-israel-11642188 Could it possibly be the case that the OP subscribes to some interesting social media groups? :)

    I'm sure the OP will be quick to clarify that this isn't the case. And they will assure us there's no connection between this thread and the tagline under all of his/her posts...
     
  12. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    2017 eh?

    And just look at which direction Corbyn has gone since then, even among Labour voters!

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...head-of-labour-party-conference-a3941926.html

    The exclusive survey for the Evening Standard [September 2018] reveals how badly Mr Corbyn’s personal brand has been tarnished in a year in which he was criticised by Jewish leaders for failing to root out anti-Semites from Labour’s ranks.

    Key findings show:

    Just half of Labour supporters are satisfied with Mr Corbyn’s performance, down from 71 per cent in October last year to 48 per cent now. Among the general public as a whole, just 24 per cent think he is doing a good job, down from 42 per cent.


    Two-thirds of the public say they do not like Mr Corbyn, which is sharply up from 48 per cent a year ago.

    Just 32 per cent say they like him, down from 46 per cent in September 2017.

    It is Mr Corbyn’s lowest score for likeability and similar to those achieved by Mr Miliband before he lost the 2015 election and by Gordon Brown in 2008.

    The research points to Mr Corbyn being the problem rather than his party, because Labour’s “like” rating has gone up. One in three say they like Labour but dislike its leader, up from one in five a year ago. Among Labour supporters, the proportion who dislike Mr Corbyn has doubled from 18 to per cent to 37 per cent in a year.

    ...

    And, by the way, I don't need a link to Google to tell me where Western Europe is, thanks very much. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  13. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    One of the problems for the independents is even if they are letting opinion polls of 10-14% of the vote going their way to their heads, that higher amount still led to UKIP getting but one MP.

    No doubt they will soon say a system they adored as it kept riff raff out and protected/s the two big parties, is also something they now have 'evolved'their views on and want to change to PR.

    With the very real probability that blasts UKIP to a dominant position! (Hey worry not, the Tories and Labour will never push for a change to FPTP)
     
  14. fraisier

    fraisier Occasional commenter

    The bigger issue here is that they're not geographically strong enough to make an impact in our FPTP system, just like the SDP in 1983. Despite getting 25.4% and nearly 8 million votes (Michael Foot's Labour: 27.6% and 8.5m) they only managed 23 seats (and roughly the same figures in 1987, SDP was dissolved a year later); Labour got 209.
     
    nomad and dumpty like this.
  15. MAGAorMIGA

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    It's also worth remembering that Corbyn added three and a half million Labour voters (and 9.6% of the vote) in only two years after becoming Leader. The plot to unseat him was hatched on the day of his Election, by the systematic resignations and refusals to serve in his Cabinet, forcing him to bring in a "B" team of Ministers, some of whom have proved extremely competent. It then moved on to the no confidence vote and leadership challenges of Angela Eagle and Owen Smith, which the members shot down in flames. The amazing Election result in 2017 spiked the opposition's guns for a while, so they have resorted to sneaky, insidious tactics of smearing him as "an anti-Semite," It's strange how none of the Jewish MPs on the Left have gone along with it. One might almost think that their ACTUAL beef with Corbyn is his politics. In addition, the Right also saw Brexit, and Corbyn's refusal to get whole-heartedly behind a second referendum (why should he, after all, Leave won a majority?) as another great chance to undermine their hated elected Leader. No doubt, after Brexit, they will find another stick with which to beat him.
     
    T34, emerald52 and schoolsout4summer like this.
  16. LondonCanary

    LondonCanary Lead commenter

    If they can get 13.5 million more people to agree with them, they could win a general election.
     
    chrisoakey likes this.
  17. afterdark

    afterdark Lead commenter

    12.78 Million people voted Labour in 2017

    The Tories got 13.6 Million.

    He doesn't need another 13.5 Million to win.
     
  18. LondonCanary

    LondonCanary Lead commenter

    He needs that many who are not Labour party members. So some Tory voters need to come over
     
  19. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...ad-problem-anti-semitism-momentum-chief-says/

    Even Jon Lansman, the founder and CEO of Momentun says that Labour has a “widespread problem” with anti-Semitism and “underestimates the scale of it”.

    He told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme that the party was not institutionally antisemitic, and instead attributed the problem to “conspiracy theorists” who had joined the party since 2015.

    [For this, read members of Momentum, amongst others]

    “The party trebled in size,” said Lansman. “Amongst those are members attracted towards conspiracy theories.” He added: “The Tory party is a smaller party and an elderly party and the role of social media in fomenting and spreading some of the poison is therefore more of a problem in the Labour party.”

    Facebook groups in particular can become arenas in which a minority with hardcore views can become amplified, Lansman said.

    Yup, the bold and underlining is mine. I may just have mentioned something about the role of social media and Facebook in the past, in passing as it were. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
    border_walker likes this.
  20. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    Planet Nomad got a lot of likes....
     

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