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Spain and paid leave for teachers

Discussion in 'Teaching abroad' started by nyenyedzi, Jun 30, 2017.

  1. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    just out of interest, you said you have worked around the world, and you moved back to Europe to be closer to your family, but why did you choose Spain? if you have already been on the circuit, you must have known about its awful reputation for schools? what made you choose Spain?
     
    truth_seeker12 likes this.
  2. jomaimai

    jomaimai Established commenter

    I will go to a union. CCOO has the best lawyers. Ask them if you can become a union member (It is very cheap compared to the UK) If there is anything you can do, they will know.
    The only thing is that it may be tricky to talk to the right person.

    If I were you, I would go to their office in person.
    Federació d'Educació de CCOO Catalunya
    Via Laietana, 16 , Barcelona-08003
    Telf.: 93 481 28 42 Fax 93 268 42 72
     
    nyenyedzi and sabrinakat like this.
  3. miketribe

    miketribe Established commenter

    And union dues are even tax deductible! CCOO or UGT are the big ones and either old give you clear legal advice.
     
    nyenyedzi likes this.
  4. nollaig

    nollaig New commenter

    See the school in Málaga which just sacked 7 teachers on the last day of term with no warning..the director and his sidekick are two dodgy types used by the owners to do the dirty work but neither should be working in a school.. shame that school can operate like this with a blatant lack of respect for staff, students, parents..
     
    malagawolf likes this.
  5. truth_seeker12

    truth_seeker12 Occasional commenter

    Schools are allowed to sack teachers on the last day. I see it every day. Its sickening. Some have kids that need school places in new schools and the deadline for application has passed. Then they are too late to apply for jobs as most schools have employed teachers. This is Spain for you and I know other countries do it too but its the way its done.

    I love the country and the people. The lifestyle can be good if you have a salary of over €30k as its cheap for daily life (rent is fairly high) but I cant stand the treatment of teachers. Even countries that have a bad reputation for their workforce in the ME place a value in their teachers. I am yet to see that in Spain as good schools also explot teachers. 1% of shcools are genuinely good to the staff. Part of the problem is that there are too any teachers available and they are easily replacable so school find it easy to abuse teachers.
     
    debbie4us and dumbbells66 like this.
  6. MuffinMK

    MuffinMK New commenter

    Lol, no such thing in Spain! The people of Spain have few workers rights, the expats of Spain are bottom rung. Corruption is rife. Terrible place for real life! Try to move schools/countries asap. Your school is not acting legally. One day they just might not pay you for months.... and get away with it.
     
  7. lunarita

    lunarita Senior commenter

    Well, while it's true that rights have been eroded somewhat in recent years, there are still strong workers rights in spain so this is a little misleading. Also I, as citizen of the EU (for the moment anyway) have the same employment rights as a spaniard would have.
     
    miketribe likes this.
  8. miketribe

    miketribe Established commenter

    Lunarita is correct. Workers' rights HAVE been eroded in Spain in recent years but are still considerably better than they are in most of the teachers' paradises people write about on here. Workers are entitled -- after their first two years -- to 30 days pay for every year they've worked for the company if they're fired, and they cannot be fired without grounds. It is illegal to discriminate against workers because of their national origin, sex, age, etc... This place is not perfect, but it's not nearly as bad as some people on here paint it...
     
    lottee1000 likes this.
  9. MuffinMK

    MuffinMK New commenter

    I wonder is Madrid a less abusive place to work as it is more forward in modernity and multicultural acceptance?
     
  10. truth_seeker12

    truth_seeker12 Occasional commenter

    Simply, No.

    Its not based on location but the schools themselves. 95% of schools would screw over a person and whoever has lived there long enough can tell you this.

    Also, I wouldnt say its an abusive place to work in but a difficult place to work in if you want to do your job properly and if you want to be treated fairly.

    Speak to anyone there and they will openly talk about how corrupt the country is so what would stop schools from treating you unfairly. If you dont try to dodge tax or try to screw someone over then they dont understand why you dont do it. Some do it openly but most do it secretly. So the unfair treatment is also dont the same way. Schools do it passively and in ways i which you can defend yourself.
     
  11. miketribe

    miketribe Established commenter

    In general, this is true. Like many Southern European countries, there's a lot more open corruption than Northerners are used to. Some schools fit in with the general atmosphere really well. Others don't. As I keep saying, there ARE good schools here which obey the labour laws and treat their teachers fairly. I work at one.
     
  12. nollaig

    nollaig New commenter

    miketribe
    you obviously work in a school which you love and where staff are well treated but you are one of the lucky ones. It is a fact of life here that those schools are far and few between. The Patron School in Málaga used to be a school like that but under the new ownership and an `Educational Consultancy` outfit aided and abetted by some less than scrupulous management,who get flown in at the last minute (everyone else has a proper job) to carry out the dirty work of their betters, these schools end up going down the tube leaving ruin behind and a poisonous environment within.The reputation on social media of this school in particular Facebook is so toxic that it has started to advertise for teachers without specifying the name of the school itself in the hope that they will hook some desesperado who is beyond caring about where or under what conditions they draw their next pay packet.

    They sacked another member of staff during the week to add to the 7 sacked just before the holiday. Recourse to the law is a long and slow process and even if you win the company can appeal drawing out the process further. It is hardly a coincidence that the staff dismissed on the most puerile of trumped-up charges were involved in the setting up of a school union and that the staff that remain and are continuing with the process are also being victimised with random walk-ins from the inverted commas Head who can´t believe his luck in drawing a pay packet for low-level low- life activity which constitutes his world of work. Peering over his shoulder and pulling his strings is the cynical power behind the process whose aim is to drain the life-blood from the school and replace it with some cheaper watered-down version while jacking up the marketing and the prices. If you asked them how education fitted into all of this they would look at you blankly as though you were a complete fool because, lets face it Education is business.. and learning is the furthest thing from their minds.

    Too many schools in Spain in my experience are like this I am afraid to say because I, like Mike, think it is a wonderful place to live and if it weren´t for the cynicism not just of the owners but of their uk enforcers I would recommend iving here to anyone. Research a school thorougly before you apply and if there isn´t transparency take it that there is a very good reason for it.
     
    malagawolf and miketribe like this.
  13. 34knockthedoor

    34knockthedoor New commenter

    This is terrible rights. You have to wait TWO YEARS before you can get a measily 30 days out of your employer if you are fired. Terrible! It should be immediately in force as soon as you sign the contract after the probationary period is over. Take Korea for example, if an ESL teacher is fired there (and believe me firings are wild there when things go awry), then the law is you get 30 days pay on top of your final salary no matter how long or short a time you have worked there.

    Just because it is illegal to discriminate doesn't mean they don't.
    [This comment/section/image has been removed for breaching our Community Guidelines/Terms and conditions]
    . You go up to any Spaniard at random in the street and ask him or her a question in English and I bet 9 times out of 10 they wouldn't understand what the hell you're saying. Compare this with Germany. If you went up to almost anyone in Germany and asked them a question in English, they would I reckon 90% all understand what you say.

    Just goes to show the cheap, shoddy education you get in Spain. Spain is just to go for fun on the lash for a week then come home.
     
  14. Mainwaring

    Mainwaring Lead commenter

    Musikteech wrote: 'You go up to any Spaniard at random in the street and ask him or her a question in English and I bet 9 times out of 10 they wouldn't understand what the hell you're saying. Compare this with Germany. If you went up to almost anyone in Germany and asked them a question in English, they would I reckon 90% all understand what you say. Just goes to show the cheap, shoddy education you get in Spain. Spain is just to go for fun on the lash for a week then come home.'

    One of my many reasons for choosing to live in Spain was the fact that I already spoke Spanish quite well and was keen to speak it better. I definitely didn't want to be one of those Benidorm-Brits-in-a-string-vest who think they have a God-given right to order their lager and chips in pidgin English at any location on the face of the planet. Quite apart from the fact that interrogating strangers in the street is bl00dy rude, Musikteech's sweeping statement is inaccurate. English teaching methods in Spanish state schools still do not focus enough on speaking but many parents invest significantly in extra-curricular ESL academies offering Cambridge and the like. I meet an increasing number of youngsters who want to practise their English on me. 'Almost anybody' in Germany will speak English to you provided that they are below a certain age. Ancients in my age group often don't speak it at all. I know this because I sometimes end up sitting next to them on long-haul flights and we have to depend on my schlechtes Deutsch to translate the lunch menus.
     
    lottee1000 likes this.
  15. 34knockthedoor

    34knockthedoor New commenter

    I don't know what your preponderance is with my name but anyway what I'd like to say is that kids in Europe shouldn't need to go to ESL academies after school to learn extra English. The teachers at their day schools should teach them well enough...just like yours did Mainwaring and mine too. WHy is interrogating strangers in the street bl00dy rude? People need to ask questions if they are tourists so I don't quite understand your point. And if you live in Spain, why are you referring to your flights as LONG-HAUL???
     
  16. blueskydreaming

    blueskydreaming Lead commenter

    You've used the wrong word there. You might have meant 'preoccupation'?

    (and he thinks he's an English teacher :rolleyes:)
     
  17. blueskydreaming

    blueskydreaming Lead commenter

    I wonder how many languages musicteach would be able to answer in? He does seem to have lived in lots of places, but I bet he learned absolutely nothing in any of them.
     
  18. Mainwaring

    Mainwaring Lead commenter

    Musikteech wrote: 'And if you live in Spain, why are you referring to your flights as LONG-HAUL???'

    It may come as a surprise to you, but Spain is quite democratic these days, i.e. they do let us out occasionally and not only on the Easyjet flight to Luton. We recently went to India and California and we are just back from our second trip of 2017, via Scandinavia, to visit our son and grandchildren in Minnesota. Is that LONG enough for you or do you require details of our various itineraries in S.E. Asia and Latin America?
     
    blueskydreaming and dumbbells66 like this.
  19. lottee1000

    lottee1000 Occasional commenter

    Erm teachers in schools in Europe (sweeping statement) probably teach Spanish, or French, or Serbian, as well as your teachers taught English. Probably better I'd hope. What you should compare is how do they compare to the teachers who taught you French or Spanish or German or whatever. So few people in the UK leave school with anything more than a few words of French that I really don't think any Brit can criticise language teaching elsewhere.
    Especially one who regularly murders his own language.
     
    jomaimai and dumbbells66 like this.
  20. 34knockthedoor

    34knockthedoor New commenter

    WHat do you mean thinks? OK so I mean preoccupation. I know what both mean. Do you English as a FIRST language teacher? I'm an English as a second language teacher and another subject that you wouldn't be able to teach in a million years Luv. Now can you kindly refrain (is this the correct word this time?) from abusing these threads to talk about me almost every time. I have asked you, TES have asked you, everyone has asked you but still you persist (is this the correct word)? You are preoccupied (there's that word again) with me and my posts instead of making valid points about the discussion and IDK why.
     

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