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Social care costs to be kicked under the carpet again

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Ivartheboneless, Apr 24, 2019.

  1. Ivartheboneless

    Ivartheboneless Star commenter

    https://www.theguardian.com/society...four-homeowners-saving-for-future-care-survey

    I know many of us have gone through this with elderly parents (I did) and many of us posters are retired and may face this in the future. Once again, years, and years, and years on from when it should have been sorted, there are proposals, which won't make any of it any better for any of the parties involved. As to their headline, I'm not surprised, if most elderly have the same attitude as my mother she would "never go into a care home" (did), and of course they have dementia (mostly) so don't know what is going on!
     
  2. Lara mfl 05

    Lara mfl 05 Star commenter

    Interesting article showing how complicated the whole system is. Division of 'care ' and 'hotel b&b' costs won't solve Care & Nursing Homes just shifting the balance of each so they wouldn't lose out and people will still be faced with he costs. Yes the proposed 'cap' supposed to come in years ago shows no sign of doing so anywhere soon.
    I'd also query the average 22 months stay in a Home. my mother was 6+ years in one and most residents with dementia were there 5+ years. One lady who had a stroke in her late 40s has been there well over 10 years and will still faces many more years there.

    I do think there is some ignorance amongst the general population about the 'cost of care' and that's not just care of the elderly, but anyone who is severely disabled for instance, though as more and more of us have to deal with our elderly parents there is a growing awareness of just how expensive it is.
    And yes most people are just hoping they don't live long enough to face it.

    Even 'care' in one's own home if it involves 3 visits a day is still extra-ordinarily expensive and well beyond the means of most pensioners. Councils increasingly admit they can't afford to cater for all the residents needing care. It is something of we all need to be mindful.
     
  3. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

    How much of a tax increase would be needed to cover these costs?
    How likely to win an election is the party which proposes this on on their manifesto?

    That is the conundrum.....
     
    grumpydogwoman likes this.
  4. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    The Social Market Foundation suggested that a one-off charge of £30,000 at the age of 65 is needed from everyone with property and/or assets of £150,000 or more, in order to fund universal "free" care. The suggestion was that where cash assets were not available, the charge could be deferred until after death and then taken from the estate.

    Quite.
     
    Happygopolitely likes this.
  5. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    Pillow over my face. That's what I've told my lot. Someone had better do it too! Well, without getting found out.

    I have other plans. So I can't leave it until I'm too gaga to go through with it!

    I could definitely save everyone a lot of money if only I were allowed to do it my way. And I can't believe I'm the only one. When will they enact the legislation!!! This irritates me more than a little.
     
  6. Doitforfree

    Doitforfree Star commenter

    I've said the same to my children. The thought of living in s home like my dad, where every little pleasant choice is made by someone else, horrifies me. When I can no longer eat what I went when I want, wander round my house with no clothes on, and watch the telly I want eating the food I have chosen, made the way I like it, with the drink I want and the company or lack of it off my choice, then it's off the cliff time. My dad is miserable, but his dementia is too far advanced for him even to make the choice to go to Switzerland.
     
    grumpydogwoman likes this.
  7. Ivartheboneless

    Ivartheboneless Star commenter

    I suspect that, as with all previous "promises" nothing will be done. There is far too much at stake to gain a consensus, and any proposal that might involve coughing up money or some sort of obligatory care fund will definitely not be a vote winner. Putting some proposal into a manifesto (as Cameron the <insert-word-used-by-Danny-Dyer> did can be instantly renaged on (as Cameron did) by the party voted in. There is too much at stake; the have-nowts don't care, the state has to pay, the have-loads don't care they can afford it, it is only the ones (call them middle class if you want, but it hardly applies) with own houses and maybe a small amount of savings who stand to lose nearly everything to pay for their care. Even then it is far from being the same situation in every part of the country. We will all get old.
     
    Lara mfl 05, InkyP and grumpydogwoman like this.
  8. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    Old is fine. Unfit is not.

    Just damnably annoying that I'm going to have to throw myself off a cliff whilst I'm still relatively OK. I can't leave it too long or I'd have to be wheeled up there in a chair or something. And I don't want my kids to have to go to prison just for doing something I asked them to do and consider humane.
     
    Lara mfl 05 and monicabilongame like this.
  9. Ivartheboneless

    Ivartheboneless Star commenter

    My mother always said "I'm never going in a home. I'll kill myself first." Unfortunately for her, and I never really thought she would, the dementia kicked in first. A fall where she badly banged her head brought it on (doctors never said so, but there was a change, and interestingly the Guardian has an article about a woman's personality changing after a concussion). She was then in and out of respite, had home carers twice a day, then another fall, then home carers four times a day (the maximum) then another fall and declared unfit, in the prison, sorry home, she went. It crept up on her. She was in about 13 months going steadily downhill, changed into skeletor, then died two days after her 90th birthday. Luckily I had PoA, but only for financial stuff, and that caused enough grief. We need change, massive change from NHS care and diagnosis, to lasting care, social or health (they won't declare old people with dementia as "ill" because the NHS would then have to pay), support (there is very little), information (I still do not know what is out there), to charities (I have no idea what Age UK offer, apart from second hand shops). Maybe we need a Minister for the Elderly (unless there already is one which shows how high profile they are). It still gets me seething after 9 months.
     
  10. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    Perhaps I will go over the side having hooked a Great White brought to the North Coast by the ocean currents caused by AGW.
     
  11. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    I have a deal with *someone* that is probably illegal. He will assist my suicide if I'm compos mentis and either throw himself upon the mercy of the court clutching the living will I have given him, or suck up the 8 yrs.
     
    BelleDuJour and grumpydogwoman like this.
  12. EmanuelShadrack

    EmanuelShadrack Star commenter

    That would be my plan too. The problem is of course that you don't want the people who care for you to be charged and convicted of murder. It's enormously difficult to get the timing right of when exactly to kill yourself. And if you have a stroke or something, well then all bets are off.

    As I see it, a large part of the problem is those holier-than-thou religious types in the Lords who veto any sort of mature, adult perspective. Suicide is a "sin", and all that complete rubbish.
     
    grumpydogwoman likes this.
  13. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    If I let my dogs suffer that way I could be justly "done" by the RSPCA. No arguments from me.

    Yet I could be begging and pleading to be put out of my misery and I can just go swivel. Senseless.
     
  14. Ivartheboneless

    Ivartheboneless Star commenter

    We are off the subject really. While this idea of terminating yourself is really a separate issue. How could care for the elderly be made more fair? If I'm being honest I have a daughter who will be able to make decisions for me, but I have an older brother and sister, neither of whom have children. Who gets dropped in it for them? Does it default to me? I really do not want to go through all that stuff I went through with my mother with a sibling. My daughter has enough on her plate with three kids.
     
    Lara mfl 05 likes this.
  15. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    Social services will get PoA when there is nobody else to turn to.
     
    Lara mfl 05 likes this.
  16. EmanuelShadrack

    EmanuelShadrack Star commenter

    It's not entirely separate. If people were provided with the means of killing themselves, it would cut care costs, and perhaps fund a better system.
    In short, yes, it does default to you.

    However you can refuse to get involved, and then the whole messy Court of Protection process begins. Expect to see large amounts of money going to the state for dealing with that.
     
    grumpydogwoman likes this.
  17. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    Well, we could start by all acknowledging the problem.

    There are many more of us oldies than once there were as meds are keeping us alive. But we're not living with good health.

    So. More elderly. More elderly with multiple health issues. My state pension isn't starting until 6 years after I was expecting so I'm less well-off at this point than I'd thought. Er, my daughters aren't as well-off in their 20s and 30s as I was at the same point. (Many reasons for that.)

    The state isn't going to/can't afford to/won't want to step in. So we shall be thrown on our own resources.

    Here's what I am recommending to Her Maj. She's 14 years younger than I.

    Assuming I die at about 85? She'll be 71. Sell the house and get together with like-minded ladies and move in together. Buy in some services. Help each other. A kibbutz, if you will. Heck, we should probably do it NOW! There's one possibility.
     
    monicabilongame and Lara mfl 05 like this.
  18. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

    Ha! I suggested that years ago to my (many) childless and / or single friends. We set up a commune. One of my less gregarious friends will be the hermit living at the extreme edge of the commune, to be visited by appointment occasionally, to share his wisdom. I think it's a goer......
     
    monicabilongame and Lara mfl 05 like this.
  19. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    Count us in @chelsea2

    If you don't mind, that is. I have daughters but I'm not foisting myself on them! They've done nothing to deserve THAT!

    Do we have to restrict it to single? And/or childless?

    If we club together we could afford somewhere quite nice AND give employment to people. I don't expect the state to look after me. Well, it won't. It can't. Let's have our own little haven and run it our way. Let those who need it more than we do get state aid. But on the same lines. If that's what they want.
     
    chelsea2 likes this.
  20. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    No it doesn't - I've been round the houses on this one more than once.

    If you have siblings (or any family member) who lose mental capacity but haven't got a Power of Attorney in place then it never defaults to you to be responsible for their affairs. You will not be legally responsible for family members financial or health affairs unless you agree to be.

    What you can do in that situation is apply to the Court of Protection to be appointed their Deputy. Which is broadly the same as being appointed their Attorney under a PoA but with added paperwork and scrutiny. But it's totally up to you whether you wish to apply to be Deputy, no-one can make you do it.

    If neither you nor anyone else applies to be Deputy then various 'Professionals' can apply to the court to take on that role, as DoY says, usually Social Services.
     
    Lara mfl 05 likes this.

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