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So what to do with the NHS?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by dumpty, Nov 23, 2019.

  1. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    Has happened to me a few times but only recently.

    As I now only have the options 'post reply' or 'upload file' or 'more options' under the box I cannot get how even clicking the upload or options would have it appear I have posted.....just for a blank thread to appear. (Well the one I am posting on but nothing added from me)

    Call the doctor!
  2. foxtail3

    foxtail3 Star commenter

    There is always talk of providing more money to train doctors and nurses. Those doctors and nurses will not be trained for years though and it isn’t a question of suddenly finding the personnel to do the job.

    There are stories all the time about missed appointments, lack of communication between departments and between hospitals and primary care, resulting in missed appointments, wrong treatments, lengthy waiting times and general duplication of resources unnecessarily.

    We know that inefficient technology causes problems - look at TSB, whose bungled computer services messed up bank accounts for months and who have been castigated in the report earlier this week.

    The NHS needs a comprehensive review of its communication services. That will reduce the inefficiencies that are currently so prevalent. It would, at the very least, be a start.
  3. colacao17

    colacao17 Lead commenter

    Yet there's money for brexit preparations and brexit information campaigns. There's money to bribe the DUP. There's money for tax breaks for the wealthy and for big corpations and of course there was money to bail out the banks.

    It's about priorities. Vote for the party whose proirities most closely match yours.

    Yes, happening to me too. TES also needs to rethink its priorities. Less half witted moderation and more thought given to the technical specs.
    Burndenpark and monicabilongame like this.
  4. Jude Fawley

    Jude Fawley Star commenter

    It's the Russ
  5. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    Massive amounts get done. Since the 1980s, life expectancy has been going up by roughly two months a year every year, as we saw fewer deaths due to smoking or heart problems.

    When I started in the NHS in the early 70s, the majority of the R&D work the medical physics dept was involved in revolved around cardioligy, radiotherapy and respiratory medicine. Heart disease and cancer were significant killers back then. Basically, they were a death sentence. Although people still die from these, they are less of a concern, since treatment has improved significantly, thanks to better diagnosis, screening and earlier intervention.

    Increases in life expectancy have stalled though, because the goalposts have been moved.

    Every generation brings a different range of health issues for the NHS to be concerned about. Far fewer people will die from lung cancer or heart disease, because far fewer people smoke.

    Diabetes has been on the rise since the 80s, largely due to overconsumption of sugar in their diets. The NHS is having to deal with the consequences of this. It also has to deal with the consequences of increased lifespan.

    I can't remember many kids at my school suffering from asthma, but these days, it's the other way round.

    Then there's the increase of people diagnosed with mental health problems. Increase in drug abuse and alcohol-related illnesses. The Internet has brought the opportunity to purchase prescription drugs online, which it's unlikely such people will tell their doctor they've been taking, so we end up with the situation that doctors are treating the side effects of medications he is unaware of.

    Where I'm going with this, is that the world has radically changed since the inception of the NHS in ways that the NHS could never have been prepared for. Who would have imagined AIDS coming along out of the blue? Lifestyle choices have a lot to do with the drain on NHS sevices and as long as people make poor ones, coupled with ever-greater opportunity to make them, we have to accept that the cost of the NHS will increase year upon year.
  6. Kandahar

    Kandahar Star commenter

    I generally enjoy reading your posts - and this one is one of the better ones. One real problem with the NHS, to my mind, has been centralisation (as with state schools) - and the loss of community (same with general pratice).
    needabreak likes this.
  7. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Thank you for presuming to inform me how to use my democratic vote. I will vote for the the party who's realistic aims I feel best fit my values and the country's economic needs as is my right, you can of course vote for who you like also, I won't presume to try to influence you or anyone else nor will I call you names if you disagree with me or assume you are educationally lacking or have learning disabilities as others do here, I do hope others extend the same courtesy but I'm not holding my breath.

    I was a remainer and was hugely disappointed with the referendum results so I am equally frustrated by the time and resources wasted by those unwilling to commit to enacting with will of the people, and by their dogged determination to disrupt proceedings in an attempt to hijack the leaving process. All said and done had this been completed as quickly as possible we would be past the economic uncertainty and on the road to economic recovery. Alas those that held up the process have their way... a GE it's a shame they are still no more aware of the economic consequences of their spending plans and don't realise people can see past the jam today promises.
    Oscillatingass likes this.
  8. smoothnewt

    smoothnewt Star commenter

    I mean that we should look at what works elsewhere, be that an insurance-based system like France or Germany or whatever could provide a more workable model. I’m not expert enough to comment in depth, but I know that Brits that get treated in France are generally pleased with their treatment. I guess the fact that the French employ at least twice as many doctors as we do (if I recall the chairman of the BMA correctly - it may have been three times as many) has a lot to do with things.
  9. LondonCanary

    LondonCanary Star commenter

    French GPs (like many here) are not employed by the state but are in private practice and contracted to the state for work. They tend to operate more than a triage service.
  10. Kandahar

    Kandahar Star commenter

    Up until the early 80s we properly trained our nurses (grant supported) and trained far more doctors. This neglect is largely where the problem lies - that there is such little investment in a home-grown workforce.
    border_walker likes this.
  11. smoothnewt

    smoothnewt Star commenter

    Taking away the training bursary for nurses can’t have helped the situation.
  12. border_walker

    border_walker Lead commenter

    What it needs is a cross party agreement for a massive review, then having set priorities have an agreement to put it outside of politics by having long term goals not changes based upon elections and changes of government.
    needabreak, smoothnewt and lanokia like this.
  13. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    That's very kind of you, @Kandahar.

    It's very much a postcode lottery whether you get the best treatment possible. There are pros as well as cons for a certain amount of centralisation. The London hospital I worked in, had a reputation for being among the most eminent in the country and a long history of diseases being named after the consultants who served it. Many surgical procedures and surgical instuments carry their names too.

    It was a place that the best doctors wanted to learn their trade in, work in and be able to have on their CVs as they moved up the career ladder. What people probably don't realise is the internal politics that go on in a hospital like that.

    Just as some cabinet ministers are better at increasing their department budget than others are, so it is with consultants. It isn't simply a matter of asking for an MRI scanner and getting one, a bid has to be put in for it. How seriously that bid is taken will depend on how well the consultant performed with previous equipment (and the space to house it, along with the extra staff it requires). It's very much a question of building an empire within a hospital.

    A hospital based in London helps too, as being located in the most densely populated part of the country, greater experience of the rarer diseases is gained.

    In an ideal world, there would be a policy of having identical healthcare provision in every part of the country, but we don't live in an ideal world. We live in the real one, where personality and vanity play as much a part in the direction health care goes as the need of its provision.
  14. colacao17

    colacao17 Lead commenter

    Isn't that the same thing?
  15. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    Brits that get treated in France. Do you mean holidaymakers with travel insurance? EHIC bearers? Ex-pats?
    I've had to access treatment abroad twice. Both times the insurance coughed and I didnt require any ongoing treatment or meds. If I hadnt had insurance, or if I'd been too ill to be moved, what would the charges have looked like?
  16. ajrowing

    ajrowing Star commenter

    My daughter had cosmetic surgery when she was 2, was that a waste of resources?
  17. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    No not necessarily, I have many personal priorities that the State cannot help with, nor do I expect them to and my values might even differ from someone representing a party that might be considering the best interests of society. Societies needs/priorities and my personal ones can be very different, the governments role is to provide infrastructure to support society not necessarily or always my personal priorities whatever they are and this is clearly where our approach to voting goes awry.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
    Oscillatingass and border_walker like this.
  18. LondonCanary

    LondonCanary Star commenter

    Changing it to a degree course rather than hospital based, vocational training put paid to that.
    border_walker and Wotton like this.
  19. ajrowing

    ajrowing Star commenter

    I strongly suspect (like education) that there is probably nearly enough money, but it is what it is spent on that is the problem. Being teachers we are all well aware of the burgeoning management class who spend their time creating work for other people to do. The same is the case in healthcare I understand.
  20. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    Agreed, but the rationale behind that came from a desire on the part of the nursing unions to improve nurses pay by making the career structure similar to other professions, which required degree qualification to reach the higher pay grades.
    Burndenpark likes this.

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