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So what now for Brexit?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by dumpty, Dec 13, 2018.

  1. Photo51

    Photo51 Established commenter

    As I said, it's a represenative democracy. You don't seem to understand what that means.
  2. bumchuckle

    bumchuckle Occasional commenter

  3. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    You are mixing the two issues. I was referring to the referendum, which was and is as democratic as it can get. One person, one vote - every vote carrying the exact same weight and importance.

    You cannot get more democratic than that.

    Re FPTP of course it has drawbacks, as does PR. But that argument cannot deflect from the fact the referendum was democracy at its finest and fairest.

    Indeed, that is why I always wanted one. I said countless times in the run up to the referendum where it seemed a shoo-in that remain would win and win big, that I could and would accept that as at least and at last I had been given a fair, equal shot at getting us to leave.

    If the result of my peers was to remain, that would be far, far easier to accept than a tiny group of fly by night MPs deciding it all.

    It was democracy in its rawest, finest form.
    oldsomeman and border_walker like this.
  4. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    I heard Arlene Foster answer this - if I understood correctly she said those decisions you refer to were made by the NI devolved institutions, whereas May's deal has them subservient to the EU in other areas and that unlike above, they will be unable to adjust or change them.
  5. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    Norway is not in the CU. I guess you are arguing that as it is part of the SM it is the same thing?

    Do you believe a vote to leave the EU by your peers should be respected and delivered?

    Well that is why I am back - I do not share your pessimism. If we leave I believe within a short time the British spirit and know-how will have us flourishing and free.

    But Corbyn cannot keep going AWOL and hope no-one notices or May mucks things up so badly his members' demands for a vote of no confidence followed by Corbyn/Labour demanding a 2nd referendum will not get done.

    Labour are headed towards their own civil war on Brexit, it is just only Corbyn seems to know this.
    Sir_Henry likes this.
  6. Ivartheboneless

    Ivartheboneless Star commenter

    I fully understand what you are trying to say, but just using the word "representative" does not make it so. Try looking it up in a dictionary, even your Russian to English one will have a definition. It does not matter how many times you repeat yourself (a leaf borrowed from the Cameron administration's big book of lies) it does not make the drivel you write into the truth.
  7. Photo51

    Photo51 Established commenter

    Obviously not. You find disagreement more important than understanding.
    Sir_Henry likes this.
  8. Ivartheboneless

    Ivartheboneless Star commenter

    Only disagreeing with you. But then you are not what you pretend to be, having used other previous identities to post spurious disruptive nonsense on this forum.Your MO is so obvious. So fire away.
  9. Photo51

    Photo51 Established commenter

    But when you do it on principle and are wrong, it makes you look a bit dim.
    Sir_Henry likes this.
  10. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    Tainted by corruption.
  11. Ivartheboneless

    Ivartheboneless Star commenter

    No comment about your multiple previous personalities I see. How can I be wrong? You certainly are not right. As I put before, just repeating your "opinion" ad infintum does not make it right, as those Nazis who were "just following orders" discovered.
  12. Burndenpark

    Burndenpark Star commenter

    It's A customs union- clearly not the same one that Turkey is part of- but it is a customs union isn't it?
    As is the one Turkey is in- neither are EU members- so it's entirely possible to be in a CU but not in the EU isn't it?

    Yes, just as soon as we find out just what it was they wanted- now what made you think otherwise?

    That will be because the British have superior genes? God loves us and gives us special powers? What makes you think that the British have this ability that other nationalities lack?

    if Corbyn can hold back until May has done the deal (in his mind at least and probably a few more) he's home and dry. He can claim that he'd have got a better deal, or that he'd have offered a "second" referendum, or what ever. Unlike you, he's figured out that the experts are probably right about both Brexit and the dangers of weeing on a live toaster. In which case he's perfectly happy for the Tories to shred any economic credibility they ever had for at least a generation.
    ilovesooty and monicabilongame like this.
  13. Photo51

    Photo51 Established commenter

    Dumpty is right. Efta countries are not in the CU and are in the single market. Turkey is in the CU.
    Sir_Henry likes this.
  14. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    Ah right, I see now how you are twisting it. I did write 'how do you leave the EU' and you are wanting to argue the Norway model does that. I think you know me well enough to know I am talking about EU jurisdiction when I say leave - for me leave means leave.

    Norway is not in the CU. If you want the Turkey model or a direct answer to the CU question, you can be in a CU but not members of the EU.

    However, you are still under control/agreed control of the EU standards and rules, ergo you have not left its jurisdiction,

    For that reason, Norway and Turkey are non starters.

    This is below you, @Burndenpark. You stated how much you want a full remain and use this rather infantile 'what did they mean....no what did what they say they mean really mean?' nonsense to get out of being honest.

    There you go again.

    I do actually like Corbyn. He knows there are no votes (many lost) in going to an election on his full remain deal.
    Sir_Henry likes this.
  15. ilovesooty

    ilovesooty Star commenter

    I don't buy the idea of some kind of unique "British spirit" or "know how " either.
  16. baitranger

    baitranger Established commenter

    So it looks as though we are going to leave the EU without a deal. Will there be another exchange rate crisis as the pound drops like a stone? What's round the corner then? A series of interest rate rises to bolster the pound, a dramatic fall in house prices, repossessions, a crash...?
  17. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Not very likely. There is no appetite for "no deal" in the Commons and the EU will, in the end, do everything it can to avoid it. That's not to say it couldnn't happen, but out of the various 6 or 7 possible scenarios, it is the least likely.
  18. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Don't panic. Not enough people in parliament are anywhere near that stupid.

    Several government ministers are now reported to be favouring a second referendum.
  19. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    I thought Theresa May showed it with her 'you talking to me?' showdown with Juncker.

    In fact, as someone who voted leave and since has become hardened in wanting leave, I am starting to get some admiration for her and even to the point where I would rather see if she can get her leave deal delivered (after the withdrawal act) in the hope that yes, she will do all she can to stop the backstop coming into play.

    She is mad and does not listen but she does seem wanting to deliver if she can.

    I do think more and more Tory MPs (the Brexiteers) are now asking themselves the same question but also I am sure because they know voting down her deal really does have us at around 70-30 for no Brexit at all. There is too much energy and desire, also in parliament, to keep us in the EU.

    This is feeling more and more like the only chance left possibly to leave the EU. And at least it has hope, a possibility we will leave.

    All May needs is a half decent text from the EU (which I think they will give her in January) and most Brexiteers will fold and vote it through.
    Sir_Henry likes this.
  20. Photo51

    Photo51 Established commenter

    If you Google representative democracy, you will finally understand that it is not what you think it is.
    Sir_Henry likes this.

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