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So what now for Brexit?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by dumpty, Dec 13, 2018.

  1. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Oh, I realise that while you go on and on and on about thje 2016 referendum being invalid, you haven't dared challenge the Electoral Commission on the matter because you know very well they will tell you that you are wrong.

    Rest assured that I will continue to remind you of this if you keep trying to claim that the 2016 referendum was invalid.
  2. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    To make it clear Raab said:

    "We want a bespoke arrangement in goods which recognises the peculiar, frankly, geographic, economic entity that is the United Kingdom.

    "We are, and I hadn't quite understood the full extent of this, but if you look at the UK and if you look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing.

    "And that's one of the reasons why, and there's been a lot of controversy about this, but one of the reasons why we wanted to make sure that we have a very specific and very proximate relationship with the EU to ensure frictionless trade at the border, particularly for just-in-time manufacturing goods whether it's pharmaceutical goods or perishable goods like food."


    Quite frankly he was either:

    a) Less well informed about UK trade than the vast majority of educated - and a fair number of less well educated - UK citizens are; and/or
    b) Incredibly naive in admitting to this...

    In either case it doesn't strike me that Raab, despite having been to both Oxford & Cambridge, is made of the right stuff to be PM...especially at this difficult period... ;)
    MrMedia likes this.
  3. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    So all he said was that he hadn't quite understood the full extent of the reliance on the Dover-Calais crossing - and you think that makes him unsuitable to be Prime Minister?

    Jeez, Frank, you deserve Boris Johnson if that's all you can think of to object to!
    Happygopolitely likes this.
  4. irs1054

    irs1054 Star commenter

    Except that it is not simply my opinion but the opinion of academics who study this sort of thing. Trying to engage with the Commission is a rather redundant exercise since they have done their job. It is an issue for Parliament unfortunately.

    And reminding me is in no way an argument against my claim so that is redundant as well.
  5. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    You would be the first to jump up and down in delight if the Electoral Commission agreed with you. You know full well that they would not.
    Happygopolitely likes this.
  6. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    Wont be the first time in our history or the last.
    Happygopolitely likes this.
  7. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    Straw men or straw man?? Why not throw a unicorn into the mix, just for variety:p
    Happygopolitely likes this.
  8. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    Sorry you must use one straw man or unicorn per argument :p
    Happygopolitely likes this.
  9. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    Really? Can you prove that? Or is that a straw man? Or a unicorn? Anyway I am off to see the wizard, the wonderful Wizard.................
    Happygopolitely likes this.
  10. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    To leave, to go away from.

    synonyms: depart from, go away from, go from, withdraw from, retire from, take oneself off from, exit from, take one's leave of, pull out of, quit, be gone from, decamp from, disappear from, abandon, vacate, absent oneself from, evacuate.

    There you are it is defined.
  11. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

  12. irs1054

    irs1054 Star commenter

    I do not and neither do you. Why don't you try?
  13. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    All of which brings in :

    Read between the lines, what he is actually saying. We are as welcome within the EU as a fart in a spacesuit.
  14. irs1054

    irs1054 Star commenter

    Context, dear chap, context.

    I very much doubt that either the DUP or the Tories see it like that.
    monicabilongame likes this.
  15. irs1054

    irs1054 Star commenter

    Well I have made a case that has yet to be challenged.
  16. MrMedia

    MrMedia Star commenter

    I think this forum is in microcosm, the country. We have been infected by the Tory disease of the EU. I’m as virulently pro EU as @dumpty is anti. Neither of us is satisfied with any compromise agreement and yet we must be either in or out. Currently we are in. The parliamentary arithmetic isn’t there for either side nor a compromise. Quite paradoxical really. The only people looking good are the Liberals. Labour are inching along to remain and the tories are inching along to no deal. I think you guys know you are not anywhere near getting your Brexit as much as I think we are anywhere near closing the door on Brexit and remaining.
    Lord Ashcroft's analysis is interesting for you who are psephologically minded. It suggests the next GE will be transformational.
  17. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    I challenge thee to a duel at noon. ( Was meant as a joke but I wonder now if that might be the only way to end it )

    You can see with the near hysteria on outlets like Ch4 , Sky and the BBC just how much of a worry there is Brexit will be delivered. They are relentlessly pushing Tory MPs to say they will vote against the Tories if the new leader (as Boris has said, Raab too) accepts no deal as an option.

    Why the panic? Because the fear is the arithmetic as you say IS changing. Not necessarily the views but the feeling the Tories will fall into line and back their new PM.

    If you are a Tory MP what can you do unless - and there may be some - you do want to end your career over Brexit. But it will be THE end - no point in going to Change UK anymore.

    We shall know more about this once they have a new leader. I think it will end up being between Boris, Raab and Gove. Gove is the compromise and he might swing it...but he represents May's deal and will soon have Farage reminding them his army of voters won't accept another May.

    If Brexit is delivered, with it they end Farage and will have very good chances of winning an election. Sure is one big carrot.

    The Liberals are - and I must include Farage here - in the great position of calling for influence without having any responsibility. It can and will change for them both if a GE comes into play where again you'd expect the Libs to sponge from Labour and Nige from the Tories. However, if the LDs are true remain and Labour probably 99% remain, it could all backfire.

    Otherwise agree.

    Yes, no-one is pulling ahead so to speak but when we are one amendment to the backstop from all being friends, I cannot see this going on much longer.

    But OK, I did not see this thread going past a hundred or so posts......
  18. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    And you think Brexit will give us back control?
    mathsmutt likes this.
  19. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Because the High Court has already turned down an attempt to annul the 2016 referendum, saying that the case has no merit.
    border_walker and dumpty like this.
  20. MrMedia

    MrMedia Star commenter

    Ah but @dumpty I would like to say you enter into the spirit of debate without falling to the ad hominem of others. Interwoven between our protestations at each other is some genuinely good psephological and parliamentary discussion. I think we all learn from debate like this and I so wish some politicians would conduct themselves with the honesty and insight that some on here show.
    sodalime and dumpty like this.

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