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Discussion in 'Personal' started by dumpty, Dec 13, 2018.
You do understand the idea of the official opposition do you?
Yes, Labour think it is to do their best to wreck UK business and lose British jobs by delaying a decision on Brexit for long enough to drive more and more firms away from these shores.
There seems to be many ifs and buts..The reality is that people have voted to leave. Groundhog Day with perpetual late predicting, self congratulations, or attempted insults at leavers does not change the democratic vote.
How can they do what the Tories have already done?
Actually it is the Brexiteers who are doing their level best to wreck UK business. In fact Labour have really not done as much as they should to oppose because of their tactic of "constructive ambiguity".
Brexit is the Tories pigeon, and it is their problem. They inflicted it on the UK by having an uncalled for referendum and then allowing it to take place with one of the options undefined. This allowed the whole business of Brexit to become a fact free zone where any idiotic fantasy was allowed free rein.
May's action from start to finish has been about holding together the Tory party rather than anything to do with enacting the result of the referendum or in the interest of the nation. So it is rich in the extreme to try and put the blame on Labour for not helping the Tories do their idiotic worst.
I was thinking just the same.
And yet her actions have in all probability finished the Tory party (and Labour along with it) for good.
Why should Labour vote for the WA? Their leader did not have any part in forming it, they were not elected on the coat tails of May, unlike the ERG.
You do understand that in the HoC a majority wins don't you? It doesn't matter if it's a majority of 2 or 200.
Did you manage to understand the maths that meant the WA was defeated by the votes of the ERG & DUP or do you need lots of people to help by removing their shoes and socks.
I didn't say there were, given that I had originally mentioned the DUP, and so had you - I had (wrongly) assumed that you could keep up.
218,839 jobs have so far been lost as a result of Brexit:
There are millions more ready to be lost by parliament's constant dithering - especially if six months is now to be wasted on another referendum.
Eh? Parliament - parliament, mind - voted by 544 to 53 in favour of holding the EU referendum. The parliamentary Labour party voted for it (the entire party, if I remember correctly).
Parliament decided on the wording, not the Tory party.
You really should give-up trying to rewrite history - your errors are too obvious.
Of course he didn't. The EU will only negotiate with a member state's government.
Did you manage to understand that had the Labour party supported the Withdrawal Agreement, it would have been easily passed or do you need lots of people to wipe your bum for you? Labour will find out what the electorate thinks of its policy of destroying British jobs, come the next general election.
But the whole referendum idea came from the Tories. Yes whoever voted for it deserves censure and Labour will have to answer to the electorate for not opposing it, but the Tories started it to solve a problem within their own party and that cannot be taken away.
Whoever approved the final wording made a huge mistake. This included the Electoral Commission who had too narrow a view of the question. The fact of the matter is that it is possible to argue that the referendum was invalid based simply on the issue of the question and its wording.
The Leave option was not defined and different variants of what leave meant appeared throughout the campaigning. One thing that didn't appear was the idea of leaving the Customs Union, it simply wasn't discussed. And yet Brexiteers are busy saying that leaving the CU was part of what people voted for. Talk about re-writing history.
And exactly how do you get from Labour not supporting the WA to Labour destroyed jobs?
Although Labour had previously promised they would hold a referendum. Best to wipe that from the collective memory while you are rewriting history.
"We will put it — the EU Constitution — to the British people in a referendum and campaign whole-heartedly for a 'Yes' vote." — Labour Party manifesto, May 2005
"We will have a referendum on the constitution in any event — and that is a Government promise." — Tony Blair, The Sun, May 13, 2005
The role of the Electoral Commission is to check that the wording is clear and unambiguous. They have no remit to instruct parliament on political matters, such as stating how "leave" should be interpreted.
Again, your revisionist approach is inaccurate. There was much discussion about whether remaining in the Customs Union would be only half leaving the EU, on how well (or not) Norway is doing without being in the Customs Union, and whether a different type of Customs Union that allowed the UK to make its own trade deals (Turkey+) would be an idea. Ultimately, many felt that remaining in the Customs Union and therefore being subject to EU rules, EU control of UK trade, and the continued supremacy of the EU's ECJ, amounted to BRINO: i.e. remaining half in the EU.
If the Tories set themselves up to leave an open goal, why wouldn't the opposition take advantage of it?
Your quotes clearly show that the promise was not for an in/out referendum on the EU but on whether or not we accept the constitution. A no would have resulted in renegotiation as has happened in Ireland before, not leaving the EU.
You might think that they would have some concern for not losing British jobs - but no, they only care for playing politics and have no interest in saving more jobs from going abroad.
Vote Leave for - No Deal, SM, CU, Canada ++, Norway
That's it, you won, by presenting entirely contradictory arguments, have a plan and get over it
you cant agree on a plan apart from Leave - which you have to have a plan to do because....y'know Grown ups
in 2014 the Scottish Indy Campaign were slammed and then FM was pillared daily about Plan B,C,D,E (about currency, borders etc) and rightfully so, you can't just think these things will happen
The Current UK GOV don't even have Plan A and some are......OK with it
Old Empire, blighty, blitz spirit, i wont read because nonsense is easier, i've been conned but don't wanna lose faith, English Exceptionalism is driving this now
The EU is incredibly flawed and will continue to be, congrats your behaviour has turned them into a saintly haven away from Knuckle dragging bigots and open Nazi salutes in the street union flag wearing idiots, not to mention people actually supporting a party whose sole purpose to disrupt the proceedings - Maybe have a wee read at how many times some of you have spoken about WRS due to disruption from students and then have a wee word with yourselves at how much of a clown you look now
Blind idea Faith or Whatabouttery, that's all that's left of this argument and its all on display
Is this your plan B?