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So what now for Brexit?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by dumpty, Dec 13, 2018.

  1. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    No and No:)
    Happygopolitely likes this.
  2. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    It will have become their idea by then;):)
    Happygopolitely likes this.
  3. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    "Judge not, that ye be not judged"
    Happygopolitely likes this.
  4. Happygopolitely

    Happygopolitely Established commenter

    The point is clear. Groundhog Day type insults against winning Leave voters has become the staple diet for some. And the successful multicultural society outside of the eu will happen despite attempts to stop it.

    Leave voters are patient people indeed and gracious with it.
    lexus300 likes this.
  5. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    Might be more than 40 years, I was referring to how long I can remember Coke ads, more or less. I have no idea how many billions they have spent since 1886 or thereabouts but I am sure it was more than Vote Leave :D

    4 billion figure is more or less their budget the last 3 years.

    Did other papers not have a pro-EU agenda? Did they not run ads or EU loving propaganda? Do they not still?

    Was all the anti EU writing and indeed pro EU writing always to the lowest common denominator in your view? None of the anti was ever of substance and well written?

    Weird really as I will admit quite a lot of the pro EU was, just as lots was utter baloney, agenda ridden tosh.

    Am I not being bombarded with ads and messages from pro EUers right now? Look at the dire stuff from the Independents or indeed, the Independent paper.....both of which rather aptly should be reported to the advertising standards agency for abuse of our language and its words!

    'Independent' my ***

    As was the original argument, these pro EU ads and propaganda have no effect on me as I am sure anti EU do not on you.

    Those who feel the public did and do get over influenced and that advertisers/papers created a leave mentality in the public, take us back to square 1 and the claim we are all thick and racist as well as easily led.

    While of course never for one moment admitting this could have happened to them, too....
    Happygopolitely and lexus300 like this.
  6. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    Leaving meant coming out of the SM and CU. Was said many times and A.50 which we had signed up to gave the plan for withdrawal.

    Presumably because he did (deliberately as he admitted) not name 'those' he was referring to?

    I think May was good here in saying his comments were not 'helpful'. That is a fair summation and does not exaggerate things or give over importance to a remark (as he admitted) made deliberately to get attention.

    I did indeed and I immediately apologised and ran his actual words. No excuses, I made an error.

    You would not accept that, asked me as you do again why many felt he was having a go at them and I said I had no beef with his words or any I disagree with but with Tusk perhaps because that was the intention?

    And so here we are.:D

    I do not feel there is or can be evidence of such a deliberately exaggerated statement.

    I am not the one saying they did. Again, I do not feel there is any evidence. Where is yours, that is all I am asking. You based it on old BNP figures and chats with friends and posters on here.

    Not good enough.

    Absolutely. I cannot ask 17.4 million. I am in no doubt there were and are those who voted solely to stop immigration.

    I just want to hold to account those who - perhaps - 'deliberately exaggerate' to try and force a view as accepted across the board that this group was the major core of Brexit voters.

    Especially when in their desperation to get numbers to this group label those wanting immigration controlled (big difference to stopped) likewise as racist xenophobes.

    Well appreciate you try to put a figure on it but you still have this desire to add to what you can see is a rather low number within 17.4 million.

    A quick look at those figures (half a million) puts 97% or so of the voters as not being hard nut racists.

    Again, we cannot know but that would seem a fair call. You will then say yes but one million is 8% or so......

    The problem is, was and always will be - no evidence. Maybe as I said, the half million/one had this great change of minds as leave voters are supposed to have, maybe they did not vote anyhow....etc etc.
    lexus300 and Happygopolitely like this.
  7. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    No ducking, can repeat again - if leaving the EU leads to better opportunities than now for the young to live and work in the USA, Asia and OZ/NZ for example, they will embrace that and quite possibly see it as more preferable (better) than having FOM in the EU that presently restricts those opportunities.

    You may feel FOM in the EU is better and that is fine - that does not mean others will not.

    Especially, if we remember how this started, the young.

    This is so very wrong . I have met many incredibly spirited and adventurous youngsters who started their travels on peanuts and worked their way to riches.

    The young are more adventurous and will give it a go on the most ridiculous budgets and prospects.

    You do not think back packers work or make any contribution to the countries they visit?

    That some do not end up living and working in the countries they visit - ones they typically do when opportunity is there? Isn't that in essence what this is all about?

    So they can.

    The rest of your paragraph here is speculation. And as I have said so many times, you may be proven right, you may not.

    Time will tell.
    lexus300 and Happygopolitely like this.
  8. nervousned

    nervousned Senior commenter

    Please could you explain the restrictions to working in the USA that apply to EU countries that do not apply to non EU European countries.
  9. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    Genuine question, not being polemical, but how would leaving the EU lead to better opportunities to live and work in the USA Asia and OZ/NZ? I can't see what links these two things together.
  10. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    We need to remember how this started. I said if we strike deals with the USA (for example) that lead to easier access to work there for the young, that the young will look on that as (arguably) preferable to the FOM we have in the EU.

    @nervousned The answer is therefore it depends on what can be agreed. Trump has said it will be a bigly deal and he might want to make it an enviable one.

    He might not or it might not be. I was and am not pretending to know how it will end up, just making the point that arrangements that make it easier for the young to live and work outside the EU (which can only happen if we leave and strike deals) will soon have the young embracing same.

    @Rott Weiler The link is we have no control over any deals with the USA, Asia and Oz etc while in the EU. The EU decides and it has been pretty awful at dealing with the USA (and vice versa, to be fair).
    Happygopolitely and lexus300 like this.
  11. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    hmm. Well, maybe dumpty, but I wouldn't myself put much money on Trump agreeing a FTA that allows more Brits to go to the USA and work. I'm pretty sure that Trump's idea of a bigly deal is one bigly advantageous to the USA! But who knows, anything is possible.
    dumpty likes this.
  12. nervousned

    nervousned Senior commenter

    I can't find any evidence that the USA has ever agreed any such deal with another country, not even Canada. I think that the idea that this would happen is far fetched. Perhaps the young would prefer that but they're not going to get it.
  13. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    Canadians have easier access (easier)to live and work in the USA as part of the NAFTA free trade agreement. (Although yes, Trump wants a new NAFTA deal I think?)

    I did not say there is FOM as per the EU, nor expect that.

    And yes, you touch upon not only what this was about originally but the fear of many remainers - that the young would indeed turn their backs on the EU if leaving means a new world of opportunity outside the EU.

    Doing so makes any new referendum down the line even harder to win for remain.

    The fact we can and will be talking new deals with the USA, Asia and OZ (to name but a few) is in itself a new world of opportunity.

    Exactly how much that will be in the end for the young and access to work overseas, I cannot know.

    I am still of the view that adventurous youngsters and the hard working/qualified will get new opportunities from new FT deals with these countries. And that as in Canada, there will be agencies and law firms willing and ready to help the process.

    Any - even if just one - new visa category opening equates more opportunity.
  14. EmanuelShadrack

    EmanuelShadrack Star commenter

    What Jesus actually meant, and I have this on good authority, is not "don't judge", but "if you judge (and of course you will), be prepared to be judged yourself".
    monicabilongame likes this.
  15. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    Yes. A lot of young EU nationals come here with nothing and make great contributions.. Thats on eof the great things about FOM. A shame more of our young people dont do it.
    EU US trade and investment in both goods and services has grown massively in both directions over the years. There are zero tariffs and very low tariffs on huge numbers of goods and disputes are only evident on tiny volumes of our trading partnership.
    So, in these positive circumstances, how can the partnership be so awful as you describe?

    Also just wondering, what benefits do you think there will there be for young British people to be able to take up opportunities in India or China? I think the travel benefits will more likely be in the opposite direction.
  16. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    Still nothing but questions from happygopolitely, does it have an opinion of its own?, but good of lexus to try to answer its questions.
  17. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    Even the judiciary have their decisions overturned on appeal.
  18. MrMedia

    MrMedia Star commenter

    Hey chaps, still going on? Come on.

    Leavers - you lost, get over it. Suck it up. Remain means remain. We are going to continue remaining until such a time that we squish the last bit of doubt from you leavers. Possession is 9/10ths of the law and we possess Remain. All that no deal talk killed you. Your best bet now is to try and reform from within and get seats in the EU itself.
    dleaf12 and Rott Weiler like this.
  19. Happygopolitely

    Happygopolitely Established commenter

    Are remainers in denial even now? Yes
  20. irs1054

    irs1054 Star commenter

    Oh how I wish but that would be just too close to common sense. The lies are being sharpened up as we speak.

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