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So what now for Brexit?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by dumpty, Dec 13, 2018.

  1. border_walker

    border_walker Lead commenter

    So you are admitting that you resort to insults when you fail to make an arguement.
    I wonder how the human race survived before we started treating water? if you are correct wouldn't it have died out? How do other organisms who don't have the benefit of treated water manage to survive for many this is their environment. Perhaps it our reliance on technology that means that we are no longer fit to survive in our environment.
     
    lexus300 likes this.
  2. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    Some reports Gove is going to announce a digi-tech border with Ireland - the one we were told never could be made for 1,000 years or so.

    Have to wait and see of course but there should be news later today about it.
     
  3. colacao17

    colacao17 Lead commenter

  4. harsh-but-fair

    harsh-but-fair Star commenter


    The government is to spend up to £355m on a new system for moving goods into Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK.

    The system is required as a consequence of the NI part of the Brexit deal.

    From 1 January, goods entering NI from GB will need customs declarations.

    The Trader Support Service (TSS) will effectively see the government acting as a customs agent on behalf of businesses.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-53685266

    So a further £355 million on the Brexit bill.
     
    monicabilongame and dumpty like this.
  5. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

  6. ajrowing

    ajrowing Star commenter

    How odd. I'm sure that I remember a chap called Boris Johnson assuring us there would be no checks on goods travelling within the UK.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-50430815
     
  7. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    The article quotes him as saying this:

    He said: "I absolutely can. This is a matter for the UK government and we will make sure that businesses face no extra costs and no checks for stuff being exported from NI to GB." (My underlines)

    Have not had time to digest the finer points but is this arrangement not solely dealing with imports to NI from GB? That is, he was correct?
     
  8. dleaf12

    dleaf12 Lead commenter

    And that my dear Dumpty is a lawyers quibble that is not worthy of you, but is all too much par for the course from Boris/Dominic.

    Before the cluster **** that is Brexit hit - indeed for many more years than we have even been in the EU, goods could flow freely back and forth between NI and the rest of the UK because we were a UNITED Kingdom.

    Now, thanks to Brexit it seems that free flow will no longer be so free in at least one direction. How long before UK standards start to differ from EU ones, and goods flowing the other way, ie from NI to the rest of the UK also face checks in case they were brought in from Eire and sent onwards?

    Making NI a less integrated part of the UK by limiting the free flow of goods in either direction across St Georges Channel risks upsetting the loyalist sentiments of some of NI and sowing the seeds for a re-ignition of sectarian divisions. That said, it may turn out this time that all sectors of NI are so fed up with the westminster govt's incompetence that they welcome the chance to secede and unite the Island of Ireland. Good for them perhaps, but bad for the (no longer United) Kingdom.

    Boris is playing with fire here.
     
  9. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    :p



    But is that not what is being set up? Presumably a belief no matter what we do, we can and will accept EU standards and therefore goods being imported as OK.

    They will be deemed inferior standards but hey, ones we accepted for decades so let 'em in rather than have a border :D

    Maybe it will go as you say, maybe not. There does not seem to be much rebellion, anger or disgust in the air right now (but OK, Brexit is not the number 1 news story right now).

    Don't see it - everything is strangely calm. His plan here received a decent welcome, if not described as perfect.
     
  10. Burndenpark

    Burndenpark Star commenter

    Yeah exactly that:rolleyes:

    That's the downside with sarcasm, it mabe be the lowest form of whit, but many, it seems, lack the whit to detect it.

    Many didn't many still don't or at least not without some form of suffering.

    https://www.wateraid.org/uk/donate/donate-to-wateraid-today?msclkid=84c961a2228014ac3eae3e8dd3cfadf6&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Paid - Brand - Exact&utm_term=wateraid&utm_content=Brand - Decision - Exact&gclid=CPm_8t-UjusCFYJoGwod3g4LQw&gclsrc=ds

    Here- make yourself just a little less ignorant.

    If you really believe what you say- why not cancel your water contract and cover the back garden in pots and pans- the money you save from your water bills you can donate to people who lacked your foresight and went and got born in less developed countries.

    There you go, demonstrating your lack of scientific knowledge again.
    Seriously - unless you know something is a fact, I suggest that you let us suspect you are stupid rather than going out of your way to prove that you are.

    You just can't help yourself can you?
    Now if we put that along with this:
    I wonder how many Brexiteers have a "reliance on technology that means that we are no longer fit to survive in our environment"- things like health interventions and mobility aids?
    Assuming that you are able to put two of your ideas together and see that what the logical outcome of them is... Will you be arguing for some form of age or health related euthanasia?
     
  11. dleaf12

    dleaf12 Lead commenter

    What is being set up is the thin end of a wedge that degrades the United Kingdom’s own internal market.
    For over 300 years we have been able to trade goods anywhere within the UK with zero govt required paperwork - but not any longer.
    How come the introduction of internal to the UK trade friction wasn’t mentioned pre vote by the Brexit zealots?
     
    Burndenpark and monicabilongame like this.
  12. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    David Davies was talking about trusted traders since Genesis :p

    Agree though the situation here was messy and Boris seemed at odds with general perception about increased paperwork and checking. Tge article says it has been mostly well accepted.

    I don't think many leave voters ever said Brexit would be perfect and glitch free as neither was or is being part of the EU. Boris made it very clear the GE and voting for the Tories would mean we leave, deal or no deal - and he romped to a 80 seat majority.

    There are also reports Boris is getting well hyped up about his bridge across the sea. Would create quite a few jobs I suppose.
     
  13. dleaf12

    dleaf12 Lead commenter

    Have you ANY idea of how deep that bit of sea is?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort's_Dyke

    "Beaufort's Dyke is a natural trench between Northern Ireland and Scotland within the North Channel. The dyke is 50 km (30 miles) long, 3.5 km (2 miles) wide and 200–300 m (700–1,000 ft) deep."

    It has also been used to dump surplus UK munitions, including chemical weapons and nuclear waste since between the world wars.

    Build a Bridge?? Ha! Most of those jobs would probably be in maritime rescue.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
    monicabilongame likes this.
  14. dleaf12

    dleaf12 Lead commenter

    There were a great many things Leave voters (and Leave Campaigners) didn't say....

    What they DID say was that this would be the easiest and quickest Free Trade deal in history....

    and the other thing they said was that any suggestion of problems or difficulties was just "Project Fear"....
     
    chelsea2 and harsh-but-fair like this.
  15. alex_teccy

    alex_teccy Star commenter

    1440 European financial companies have applied to work in the UK after Brexit, including 1000 for the first time. Unilever is moving it's offices over to London from Amsterdam and Shell is thinking about following suit.
    Boris, for all his faults, understands that wealth is created by trade and Brexit is a huge opportunity for the UK.
     
  16. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    :D I do agree I thought it was a joke at first but Boris keeps floating the idea and well, he is perhaps mad enough to give it a go. One of those 'nah, he cannot be serious.....can he??' ideas.

    It should be the easiest deal and would be if politics did not play such a massive part in it all - ironically why many of us wanted out, we never voted for a political union, we wanted a simple trade union club, the EEC. Now we can see why. That it has become a bit of a mess is not the same as it has to be a mess.

    There is still time however, watch this space early December.

    Ah no, that was always because - and you do it yourself - some remainers spoke as if concrete evidence of doom and gloom/huge disaster was here right now.

    Sure, we could well go to WTO rules and not strike a FTA with the EU but it is not clear yet whether or not we will. Most of the fear from Barnier et al is pure political posturing.
     
  17. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    It wasn't "they", it was Liam Fox, and he didn't say it "would be", he said "it should be" and then went on to qualify the remark by saying that agreement on a deal might not happen if "politics gets in the way of economics.”
     
    alex_teccy and border_walker like this.
  18. dleaf12

    dleaf12 Lead commenter

    Its the process of taking current circumstances and then projecting forward the reasonably likely outcomes based on yours and other's possible and probable actions..

    Your argument reminds me of the chap that jumped from the 100th floor of a skyscraper without a parachute or any other survival gear...
    ...as he passed the 75th floor he shouted out "Wheee what a ride, this is great!"
    ...as he passed the 43rd floor he was heard to say "So far so good"...
    ...plummeting past the 9th floor he clearly exclaimed "Ground seems bigger but still doing OK..."

    Would you quarrel with the statement "That guy who jumped is going to be terminally spread all over the pavement real soon now"?? Sure Superman might swoop down, or gravity might suddenly reverse, but what is most likely to happen?

    - its the same thing for Brexit. No credible projections show any advantages accruing to the UK, either in the short or the longer term.
    Sod Barnier, we can see for ourselves that a no deal outcome with the EU will hurt this country.
    The arrangements mooted for NI loosen the ties that bond the United Kingdom.
    The wants of the fishing industry are being allowed equal prominence to the wants of the financial sector, despite the huge disparity in their relative significance to our future prosperity.

    All for what? So we can let Boris and his fellow travellers blather on about "taking back control"?

    Sorry, but if you think it was (or will be :p) worth it you have been (or are about to be:p:p) right royally shafted with a splintery stick.

    Maybe we should herd all the Brexiteers onto the Boris Bridge as a test load? After all, what could go wrong, he's in control, any doubts are just Project Fear.
     
  19. Stiltskin

    Stiltskin Star commenter

    Well we have almost got a deal with Japan, except it seems we are willing to risk it to try and get a better deal regarding blue cheese (we trade about £100k a year) in order to say we got a better deal than the EU got.
     
    chelsea2 likes this.
  20. alex_teccy

    alex_teccy Star commenter

    How many years did the EU-Japan deal take to sort out?
    We keep getting told that the EU customs union was the best option for Britain, yet here is the EU making holes in it, to increase trade. Ironically, Brrxiteers and the EU want the same thing.
     

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