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So what now for Brexit?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by dumpty, Dec 13, 2018.

  1. MrMedia

    MrMedia Star commenter

    I’ll echo @dumpty - never think you know what will happen. Or what should happen. Things can change so quickly. Even that Watson stuff currently dominating the airwaves. It’s going to be all snuffed out at the last second and guess what they didn’t talk about? Yes, exactly - Brexit. The level of Machiavellian shenanigans that are in operation are unbelievable at that power level. These guys are Uber level sociopaths (though I think Corbyn is a late convert to this). They have zero compassion. When they do the tests, they have no empathy and no compassion so they are ruthless. People can die and they don’t care. And society rewards this. They find them charismatic and compelling. They become cult like figures with armies of followers. Farage, Johnson, Corbyn - cult leaders, not good leaders. We reward popular people not clever, compassionate successful people.
     
    dumpty likes this.
  2. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    OK folks let's see who can win the prize 'So what now for Brexit' pencil.

    How will the Supreme Court rule?

    I am going for a fudge. They will set new rules but as guidelines for parliament to implement and criticise Boris but effectively leave any decision to re-call parliament to him.

    What say ye?
     
    dleaf12 and MrMedia like this.
  3. MrMedia

    MrMedia Star commenter

    Fudge. They will say the current rules do not reflect the constitution which is that the executive answers to parliament. They will probably say something like in future, parliament has to agree the proroguing and the length of prorogue.

    They won’t order parliament to resit, but Johnson would suffer pressure to do so which he will resist and which will cause even more strain on him as he suffers at least two weeks of all opposition parties and various commentators berating him.

    Oh, and the express newspaper with an enemy of the people front page.
     
    dleaf12 likes this.
  4. dleaf12

    dleaf12 Lead commenter

    Ok I'll play.
    I think you're both right @dumpty & @MrMedia . Court will focus on what should happen in future cases of desired proroguing, maybe a set of tests to be applied as to the reasons for wanting to do that.

    The Scottish request to declare the present proroguing as "null" will be turned down, so the existing break will continue, but the Cummings tactic of an almost immediate 2nd prorogue will be ruled out. Thus Boris will claim he won since he never intended to do that.

    But we'll know the truth, wont we? ;)
     
  5. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    You never know. They might decide that the UK needs a written constitution to avoid games like this being played again.
     
  6. blue451

    blue451 Lead commenter

    I agree there will likely be some kind of fudge.

    They won't want to provoke a real crisis on this occasion but won't want either to set a precedent that allows other PMs to prorrogue to push through unpopular legislation.

    After all, not all causes will be so honorable as brexit and not all PMs will have the inegrity of Johnson. </sarcasm>

    But even on just this one case, overturning the ruling of a scottish court could have a major impact on the future of the union. Scotland's legal system is its own and was so even before devolution. To have its decisions quashed by a UK court would have serious implications.
     
  7. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Part of the remit of the Supreme Court is to act as the final court of appeal for civil cases in Scotland and its panel of judges includes two Scottish judges. It has over-turned decisions of the Scottish Inner House before, without anyone claiming that so doing creates "a major impact on the future of the union".
     
  8. Burndenpark

    Burndenpark Star commenter

    It it rather crucial to the story though isn't it? If not for the birth he couldn't have been on the ward could he?

    I can't find the post on a cursory glance - I guess I meant admission rather than appointment.

    OK

    SO let's work through your conspiracy theory. Just see which bits really do work.

    You did say something about it being a Labour plot to ambush Jonson who gets flustered if asked to speak off the cuff didn't you?
    How far up Labour does this go? Was the mission signed off by Corbyn himself? Had it been approved by the NEC? Or was it just a plot by to local Labour branch?

    Does the party have a list of all comrades and what access they have to possible glad-handing sites that the PM might visit? That way, they working in cahoots with the press, could often have someone on hand to ambush the PM - as you mentioned with the Irish guy in Yorkshire.

    You said that Labour/ Omar had been tipped off by the press? Any particular organs? The Sun? Sky? BBC?

    So your plot needs either someone to know in advance the PMs schedules and be leaking them to the press who in turn are leaking them to Labour who have a network of activists that they can switch on just at the right time to ambush Johnson...

    Or We have seen a few people who just happened to be around when Johnson was meeting the public and had raised their concerns with him.

    I do quite like the idea that you believe Labour have that level of ability to plan and organise. Few people normally give them so much credit.
     
  9. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    It is one of many examples of people choosing to remember only that which suits their agenda. If your agenda demands you believe that Vote Leave was a Tory campaign headed by Boris Johnson, that is what you will come out with. But the truth is that the chair of Vote Leave, and the politician who frequently appeared on TV alongside Boris, was the Labour MP, Gisela Stuart.

    upload_2019-9-21_17-58-54.jpeg
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    border_walker and alex_teccy like this.
  10. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    Not you or me dumpty. Most predictions since post 1 have not happened.
    Whatever happens at the Supreme Court sideshow, I think the two key characters who will make the Brexit breakthrough happen will be Simon Coveney and Arlene Foster.
     
    install and dumpty like this.
  11. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Omar Salem, whose baby daughter nearly died in Whipps Cross Hospital earlier this week,has tweeted with the gratifying news that she is now "very much better", adding his thanks to the Ambulance, A&E and Ward Staff who have cared for her over the last few days.
     
    Oscillatingass and nomad like this.
  12. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    Yep. Its far too dangerous for the courts to be seen to be above the government executive and potentially even above parliament.
     
    dumpty likes this.
  13. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    Good news.
     
    Oscillatingass likes this.
  14. schoolsout4summer

    schoolsout4summer Star commenter

  15. Oscillatingass

    Oscillatingass Star commenter


    I will ignore your sarcasm which is of course your default style and deal with some of the issues you have raised.

    When the media were informed of the planned visit it is perfectly plausible that someone (reporter, sound operator, camera operator etc) could have sent a text to the local Labour party, after all I don't think they have sworn a vow of secrecy so it would not be illegal. The local Labour organization would do what they could to make BoJo appear in a bad light. On this occasion they happened to have an activist who, because the illness of his child, could spend as long as wanted on the ward so of course he would not need to know the precise time of the visit only that Bo Jo would be there at some point during the day.

    "Or we have seen a few people who just happened to be around when Johnson was meeting the public and had raised their concerns..."

    I think it takes a high level of confidence to start shouting at a high profile politician in front of cameras, reporters etc, the kind of confidence more likely to be found in a party activist than an average member of the public. I mean, why was it only comrade Omar having a go at Boris? Surely the ward would contain more than one concerned parent given the current state of the NHS?

    The fact is BP, you don't know any more about the lead up to this incident than I do, but you are determined to believe it was just a coincidence which you are entitled to and it is quite plausible. I have a very different view on this which in my view is equally plausible.
     
  16. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    You are mistaken. There wasn't any press there.

    Remember?
     
    ilovesooty, nomad and smoothnewt like this.
  17. Oscillatingass

    Oscillatingass Star commenter

    Tee hee.
     
    nomad likes this.
  18. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    Heard Corbyn on Marr and he was doing pretty well until it came to Brexit.

    The attempts to be neutral are tying him in knots in interviews and will leave him open to some serious attacks from the LDs.

    It seems his idea is Labour get a Norway Lite deal and this is - Lord knows how he works this out - the 'credible' leave option which we Brexiteers can lovingly accept or his other option - full fat remain - will be the way we go.

    And then he STILL waffles about any Boris deal brought back needing to be 'seriously analysed'......meaning 'find ways not to vote through' you feel.

    All I took from listening to him is he and Labour desperately - and it is desperately - need Brexit out of the way. Corbyn's force is domestic affairs and promising all but the rich lottsa money.

    This approach to Brexit really does risk having Labour beaten in the GE by the Liberals.

    It is, of course, pure gold for Boris.
     
    border_walker and sodalime like this.
  19. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Saw this from the Labour conference...


    "Trust the people"? Bunch of hypocrites... so the first referendum? Noooo... give the people an election... Nooo...

    And they dare say "Trust the people".... morally bankrupt bunch the lot of them.
     
    --Badger-- likes this.
  20. sodalime

    sodalime Lead commenter

    I thought Corbyn did quite well . . . when you compare it to Richard Leonard just 30 mins later, on the next programme, trying to squirm his way around the issue of Scottish Independence :)
     
    mathsmutt likes this.

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