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So it's going to be a hard, no deal Brexit whatever the cost.

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Morninglover, Feb 19, 2020.

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  1. Morninglover

    Morninglover Lead commenter

    As the speech by the UK trade negotiator, David Frost, makes clear:

    “In an age of huge change, being able to anticipate to adapt, and to encourage really counts. Brexit is about a medium-term belief in that reality that this is true – that even if there is a short-run cost, it will be overwhelmed rapidly by the huge gains of having your own policy regimes in certain areas.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...s-trade-agreement-boris-johnson-a9341971.html

    Note the 'short term' costs aren't detailed; 5 years? 10? Rees Mogg once said 50!

    Of course this wasn't what the country was promised in the referendum:

    The free trade agreement we will have to do should be one of the easiest in human history - Liam Fox 2016

    The day after we vote to leave we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want - Michael Gove 2016

    There will continue to be free trade and access to the single market - Boris Johnson 2016

    Not a single job would be lost because of Brexit - Lord Digby Jones 2016

    After we vote Leave, we would immediately be able to start negotiating new trade deals with emerging economies and the world’s biggest economies which could enter into force immediately after the UK leaves the EU - Leave Campaign 2016

    We will maintain a free flowing border at Dover. We will not impose checks at the port. The only reason we would have queues at the border is if we put in place restrictions that created those queues. We are not going to do that - Chris Grayling

    2018 Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market - Daniel Hannan 2016.


    How long before the voters realise they have been duped?
     
  2. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    We seem to want a deal.

    The EU... Paragon of free trade... Doesn't. Oh well... Good thing there are 170 odd other countries.
     
  3. emerald52

    emerald52 Star commenter

    The EU exists tp protect it’s members. The deal Cummings wants does not protect EU members. Cummings has to go so that we can have a good deal with our nearest neighbours.
     
  4. Morninglover

    Morninglover Lead commenter


    It wants a deal, but why should they roll over and give the UK all the promises Leavers made pre-2016? (See above for just a few). They knew then (& have said many times since) that these were lies.
     
  5. install

    install Star commenter

    Are you posting about a trade deal or are you moaning about 2016 still ?
     
    FormosaRed, Kandahar and Bentley89 like this.
  6. CraigCarterSmith

    CraigCarterSmith Established commenter

    I'm just waiting for the contortionists to revert back to NO DEAL is the best yay! or the no10 fanboys to say "but the EU offered this before" without fully understanding what was on offer........

    to be fair that's the mantra of Brexit exceptionalism, failing to understand what has been happening for 3 years :rolleyes:

    For Ireland and Scotland it is truly entertaining
     
    dumbbells66, Burndenpark and Alice K like this.
  7. Morninglover

    Morninglover Lead commenter


    I'm pointing out that a lot of those who voted 'Leave' in 2016 did so because they were told we could leave the EU and hardly anything would change (see the comments by Leavers in Post 1). They may well feel they were cheated, and will blame those who lied to them. At that point they may get very angry; especially if the 'short term' costs tun out to be longer than a year or two. After all, as J M Keynes said 'in the long run we are all dead'!
     
    suzuki1690, ajrowing and Alice K like this.
  8. Morninglover

    Morninglover Lead commenter

    By the way, don't get ill (or old) in future!

    Under Johnsons’s new rules anyone earning less than £25.6k is an unskilled worker. NHS starting salaries:
    Nurse £24.2k
    Paramedic 24.2k
    Midwife £24.2k
    Radiographer £24.2k
    Care assistant £17.6k
    Physiotherapist £24.2k
    Occupational therapist £24.2k

    NB I heard it mentioned on 5RLIve this morning that 'families will have to take on some of the caring responsibility' in future. Was that mentioned by Vote Leave, I wonder?
     
    Burndenpark, Alice K and emerald52 like this.
  9. install

    install Star commenter

    Are there still Leavers and Remainers? People were also told that the moment we voted to Leave there would be chaos? That didn't happen.

    Maybe a fairer and unbiased measure is 2 years from when we actually leave?
     
    FormosaRed, Kandahar and Bentley89 like this.
  10. Morninglover

    Morninglover Lead commenter

    Promises were made. Do you deny any of these quotes?

    The free trade agreement we will have to do should be one of the easiest in human history - Liam Fox 2016

    The day after we vote to leave we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want - Michael Gove 2016

    There will continue to be free trade and access to the single market - Boris Johnson 2016

    Not a single job would be lost because of Brexit - Lord Digby Jones 2016

    After we vote Leave, we would immediately be able to start negotiating new trade deals with emerging economies and the world’s biggest economies which could enter into force immediately after the UK leaves the EU - Leave Campaign 2016

    We will maintain a free flowing border at Dover. We will not impose checks at the port. The only reason we would have queues at the border is if we put in place restrictions that created those queues. We are not going to do that - Chris Grayling

    2018 Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market - Daniel Hannan 2016.
     
    Burndenpark, smoothnewt and Alice K like this.
  11. CraigCarterSmith

    CraigCarterSmith Established commenter

    do you honestly need another lesson in what Mark Carney did with QE on the morning of the vote?

    Do people genuinely still spout this complete nonsense?
     
    Burndenpark likes this.
  12. install

    install Star commenter

    Tell that to the 2019 GE voters. Now there was a 'real' lesson.. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
    FormosaRed and Kandahar like this.
  13. Stiltskin

    Stiltskin Star commenter

    I wonder if they'll trade the elgin marbles as part of the deal?
     
    Morninglover likes this.
  14. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    The threshold for specific shortage occupations such as nursing and radiographers will be £20,480
     
  15. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

    That says it all!
     
  16. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Saying something SHOULD BE easy (as in your first quote) is not a promise: it is an opinion.

    Again, saying we CAN do something is not a promise that we will (The timidity of Theresa May caused her to choose a poor path, many would say)

    That is a statement, not a promise, although it is obviously true.

    You need to have a clearer understanding of what constitutes a promise if you are to convince people of your argument. A clue is that promises usually start with "I promise ...."
     
    Kandahar and install like this.
  17. install

    install Star commenter

    The biggest promise by all parties was that the then 2016 Outcome would be followed through. Do you deny this?

    And if the 2016 vote had not been stalled, subverted and delayed for so very long do you deny we would not be in a better position now?
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
    Kandahar likes this.
  18. install

    install Star commenter

    To be fair - they were never our's imo.
     
  19. CraigCarterSmith

    CraigCarterSmith Established commenter

    So nonsense then......ok cool
     
    Alice K likes this.
  20. install

    install Star commenter

    Democratic voting is cool ...and I am sensing sour grapes from the poster :rolleyes:

    And let's look at the latest from Mark Carney (acc. to The Telegraph):


    'Once called "the high priest of Project Fear", the Governor of the Bank of England has said that not everything about Brexit is bad

    ByTim Wallace14 February 2020 • 5:45pm
    Premium
    Mark Carney has acknowledged there could be some benefits from Brexit, almost four years on from the referendum campaign during which he was accused of joining‘Project Fear’.

    The outgoing Bank of England Governor said Britain’s departure from the EU has forced a rethink of its domestic economic policies and its relationship with the rest of the world, which could be “a conceptual positive”.

    “It is a major reordering of our relationship not just with the European Union but our trading relationships with the rest of the world and it is prompting a reassessment of economic policy, structural economic policy in the country,” he said in an interview with Reuters.'
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
    Kandahar likes this.
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