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So....here we are... the future of the NHS

Discussion in 'Personal' started by HelenREMfan, Jun 16, 2019.

  1. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    I don't think it is about paying a second time to have a procedure: I expect to get mine sometime although I have waited several years so far, but to be able to pay extra from better disposable income to get a copy of my treatment within a few days of finding out one needs it. The extra disposable income have attracted NI at 2%, perhaps.
     
  2. Incommunicado

    Incommunicado Occasional commenter

    I am as puzzled by this as chelsea2.....

    Florian Gassman posted an extract that read ""Patients are scheduled into available slots on existing theatre lists and, after being referred, are treated exactly the same as NHS Patients ... Patients will have to wait for their treatments just like an NHS patient, there is no ‘queue jumping’ or private rooms or services."

    If this is the case, what are people who pay getting for their money?
     
    dleaf12 and needabreak like this.
  3. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    My husband has ever put them to the expense of 2 broke hand bits ever. Elder son broke 2bits, same thing, keepyoufit football. Quite expensive, by that chart.
    Or otherwise you can cough for their couch potato inavtivity.
     
  4. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    Oh. I forgot the vasectomy. Go him on the green thing. Limited icons available.
     
  5. hhhh

    hhhh Lead commenter

    Well, my NHS (and now also-doing-private and will-only-take-on -new-patients-if-they'll-pay-private-rates) dentist is now offering botox and teeth whitening for those who want to pay-advertised on massive TV screens in the NHS waiting room!
     
  6. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Every organisation needs an element of spare capacity especially when demand fluctuates, what percentage of use does that spare capacity mentioned equate to? I've not seen any figures on that and without a percentage figure that represented capacity utilisation and an qualitative analysis of the fluctuating demand there is no evidence either way of whether use of alleged spare capacity as a revenue earner is appropriate or not.
     
  7. hhhh

    hhhh Lead commenter

    If, during a review meeting, an English teacher told his state school pupils/their parents that he could tutor privately and all but guarantee better results, would we be happy with this?
     
  8. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Very common at private dentists who don't do NHS work.
     
  9. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Judging from some posts here if that tutor donated their profits to education it would be completely acceptable.
     
  10. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    People die.
    People get better on their own.
    People go off the idea of surgery.
    People are not ready for surgery (e.g. they've had a heart attack while waiting).

    Quite possibly because there is nobody ready on the waiting list. The hospital makes it clear that it only uses vacant slots for these operations and says that if they are not used, the slots are likely to disappear (probably meaning ward closures, staff redundancies etc). It is worth noting that the Trust concerned is one of the best in the country for meeting targets for planned operations, and is well above the national average, so it is not impossible to envisage that they have spare capacity.
     
  11. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Yes, for eye surgery and (a bit longer ago) for cancer surgery.

    We are discussing use of operating theatres, and the staff required in them. Countless studies have shown that the NHS has around 27% spare capacity in theatre use. Not shared equally, of course: some hospitals are over-stretched while others are seriously under-used.

    If you read the leaflet provided by the Trust you identified, they say:
    • Capacity already exists in our healthcare system, if not utilised, costs will have to be taken out, shrinking rather than growing our services.
     
  12. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Would you prefer the money from those able and willing to pay to go to the shareholders of BUPA or PPP, or would you prefer it to go to the NHS?
     
    monicabilongame likes this.
  13. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Treatment that is not generally available on the NHS, at a price below that charged by private hospitals, and with the knowledge that the money paid goes into the NHS rather than shareholders of BUPA or PPP.
     
  14. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Given the nature of the work "around" 27% is not huge and still could be used to reduce wait times rather than income generation, you wouldn't expect 100% utilisation due to emergency provision, the NHS do more emergencies than the private sector remember. I have not seen any of the countless studies you mention to site the 27%, do you have links?
     
  15. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    How so? The hospital says that it only uses vacant slots that it cannot fill for these paid for procedures. It goes on to say that if it doesn't use these slots, they will disappear and be available for nobody.

    http://www.chks.co.uk/userfiles/files/Theatre_utilisation.pdf
    "“On average only 73% of total operating hours are actually used.”

    Googling Hospital Theatre Utilisation will find more.
     
  16. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Looks like that company are selling IT solutions, not necessarily a reliable source when their chart has no source. I thought when you quoted the utilisation figures you'd have some substantial evidence that you say are among "countless studies", didn't realise you didn't have a link to the evidence, the option to Google myself isn't really the point.
     
  17. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Having googled the reports myself yesterday, I don't want to spend today repeating the process for your benefit. If you are interested, do your own research. It is not central to the argument that this hospital has vacant slots in its surgery schedules that it does not want to lose.

    You haven't yet answered the question I posed:

    Would you prefer the money from those able and willing to pay to go to the shareholders of BUPA or PPP, or would you prefer it to go to the NHS?​

    Do you want to tell us?
     
  18. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Clearly I'm not convinced that even selling alledged NHS spare capacity to the private sector is necessary or indeed the best use of the resources so the question of where the proceeds go is irrelevant.
     
  19. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    If you think that this trust (and all the others that offer a similar service) are lying when they publish the statement that they are using spare capacity, why don't you take them to court? Or at least get the popular media onto the case. Mind you, such schemes have been running since 2011 and nobody seems phased by them yet, except your good self.

    In fact, I have little doubt that NHS staff, who rightly tend to be very protective of the NHS, would use the NHS whistleblowing service if they believed that their hospital was misleading patients in this matter.

    I am shocked, although not entirely surprised, that you think it is "irrelevant" if this income stream goes to the shareholders of BUPA and PPP rather than the NHS. Presumably you will be equally complacent if "My Choice" was abandoned, resulting in ward closures and redundancies due to the hospital being unable to fill its vacant slots.
     
  20. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    I suspect there is spare capacity. The hospital I worked in had a private hospital within its grounds. The private hospital had no theatre facilities and limited equipment, yet it wasn't unusual for patients to be admitted for surgical treatments. Several senior politicians were among them including a Prime Minister and a Labour Secretary of State for Health.

    The same surgeons who operated on NHS patients operated on the private patients, using the NHS facilities and support staff. The consultants were able to do this because they are not contracted as full time NHS employees and unofficially ran the hospital. So long as they met their NHS quota, they were able to use the spare capacity on private patients.

    The private hospital was in a very old building and lacked the comforts and facilities of the much more modern wards, but I doubt that anyone who wanted to jump the queue was overly fussed about that. It was better than having to mix with the riff-raff.

    To have utilised the spare capacity on NHS patients would have required more surgeons, or a change in the contract.
     
    agathamorse likes this.

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