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Sick leave

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by JSH1966, Feb 17, 2020.

  1. JSH1966

    JSH1966 New commenter

    I recently moved schools but then became ill almost immediately. After a month I was visited by HR and told I would no longer be paid because I hadn't been at the school long enough. I have taught for over 10 years continually in the same LEA, are the school able to do this?
  2. cornflake

    cornflake Senior commenter

    Are you now in an academy?
  3. JSH1966

    JSH1966 New commenter

    I moved from an academy which sas following the burgundy book and I am now at an LEA school
  4. shevington

    shevington Occasional commenter

    Do you work in a Private school.? Did not know HR do home visits . Would also speak to your Union at the Regional Centre to also receive advice.
    agathamorse likes this.
  5. JSH1966

    JSH1966 New commenter

    It's not a private school it's part of a trust but under the LEA
  6. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    If you look at the Burgundy Book, then you will see that it talks about service in LEA schools, rather than ones which use the Burgundy Book. It says "For the purpose of the sick pay scheme, “service” includes all aggregated teaching service with one or more local education authorities." So, if your 10 years service was all outside LEA schools, they probably are right in treating you as being in your first year of service. If this is not the case, then you could be in anything up to the maximum of four years service which can be taken account of. Have you worked in the LEA sector before. It doesn't matter how long ago.

    However, a month is still too little. Even in your first year, you are entitled to 25 working days at full pay and another 25 at half pay. It doesn't matter when in the sick pay year (April - March) you started. "Where a teacher starts service after 1st April in any year, the full entitlement for that year will be applicable."

    If you haven't already, I suggest that download and read the Burgundy Book. If you think your school is not following it, then contact your union.
  7. JSH1966

    JSH1966 New commenter

    The school I previously worked at was previously an LEA school then bevan an academy after 3 years, so would this still be classed as continuous service?
  8. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    You need to speak to your union. We once had a member of staff injured in a car crash on her way in on her second day. She never returned, but was paid for months. I don't really know the circumstances though
    agathamorse likes this.
  9. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    HR doing a home visit is odd.
    What were they hoping to achieve?
    Or rather, what did they say they were hoping to achieve?
    In the first instance it just looks as if they were establishing the fact of you not being out of the house doing something else. I cannot think of any other reason. They sent a Sick Leave Detective.
    I hope you were advised in advance and consented to it? I hope it is part of their policy?
    In fact, no,I hope it isn't. Because that then confirms the oddness of doing it. Which may be handy, who knows.

    I also do not understand why they would pay you for that month already off sick and no more, so yes, you ought to contact your union.

    However, I have a gut feeling that you are not unionised, just something about the fact of you asking on here rather than asking them first.
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
    agathamorse likes this.
  10. JSH1966

    JSH1966 New commenter

    It was agreed by myself. They were just checking in on me to ask if there was anything they could do for me and inform me that I was no longer being paid
    agathamorse likes this.
  11. jellycowfish

    jellycowfish Occasional commenter

    Our LA's policy is 1 month's paid sick leave for every year worked, up to 6 months. A break in service could even be classed as the summer holidays. I once had a short term contract for a school which ended in July, and then started on another longer term contract at the same school from Sept. I lost all my accrued service, so this may be what happened to you?
  12. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    Thank you
    But you don't respond whether you are in a union?
    Now I'm wondering what it was they thought they could possibly do for your benefit at the same time as informing you of not being paid? Genuinely.
    It's all a bit anachronistic to me-HR popping in to see if you need anything is so 1950s, and telling you sorry, no more money due to whatever contractual technicality is so 2020s.

    So-are you in a union?
    agathamorse likes this.
  13. bizent

    bizent Star commenter

    Home visits are not odd , unfortunately. They are the early steps of a really rubbish HR policy which thinks of money before staff welfare.
    Trust me, I’ve been there. Pardon the pun.
    agathamorse and BelleDuJour like this.
  14. JSH1966

    JSH1966 New commenter

    I'm not in a teaching union in in the GMB, don't ask why. I've emailed them and asked for advice
  15. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    If you are a teacher, and have been for over ten years, I cannot for the life of me see why you'd not be in a teaching union. However...

    Schools that are part of a trust are academies, not LA. And as you moved from an academy, you definitely don't have ten years continuous service.
    Check your contract, but being paid sick pay for a month in your first year of service doesn't sound unusual

    If you fell ill immediately after starting and were off for a month, then HR/your headteacher will, quite reasonably, want to know when you plan to return. As soon as you return you will be paid again.
  16. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    That sounds rather odd, as I thought that schools under LEA control had to follow the Burgundy Book, which is far more generous than this. Has anybody discussed this with their union?
  17. install

    install Star commenter

    Have you seen and signed a contract? And did you officially start in January ? Is your illness likely to be long term?

    You need to join a Union- although it will be too late to get Union help for this if you are not already a member.
  18. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Do LEAs still exist?????
    I thought we were all LAs now?
    The NEU has this as the burgundy book sick leave:
    During the first year of service:
    Full pay for 25 working days and, after completing four calendar months’ service, half pay for 50 working days.

    So a month of full pay and then nothing would seem about right for someone who just joined the school. (25 working days being 5 weeks.)

    The NEU also says:
    An employer is required to notify an employee that SSP payments are ending and to fill in form SSP1 and give it to the employee, so that he/she can use it to support a claim for ESA. NEU members on long-term sick leave are advised to keep records of when they began to receive SSP so that they can request an SSP1 form, in the event that their employer fails to provide one.

    SSP is most relevant to teachers in their first year of service, whose entitlements under the Burgundy Book scheme will be limited but who may be entitled to receive SSP for the full 28 weeks.
    agathamorse and install like this.
  19. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    Yes, you are right, but I was referring to post #11 which is not the same situation as that of the OP, and is definitely not Burgundy Book conditions.
  20. JSH1966

    JSH1966 New commenter

    Many thanks for all your help and advice , I will let you know how things develop

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