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Shut up!!!

Discussion in 'Behaviour' started by festival fever, Mar 11, 2008.

  1. I deal with these teenagers every day as so many of the other posters do. I know how they talk and I also know that tey see us as teachers and that they see theachers as being a certain way - having a certain type of behaviour. We are a stable force in their lives and they DO have certain expectations of us. When we act below those expectations then they gasp because we are supposed to be above that to them. We are a stability and when we stop being a stability then there are problems. WE put ourselves in the position of being the adults who are NOT rude and beyond reproach so when we do fall below that standard, they will let us know.
     
  2. garyconyers

    garyconyers New commenter

    I agree. Up to a point.
    This is why I never swore and was never personally insulting in class.

    However, if any pupil tried to pull that hypocritical,
    "You can't say that, but we can say worse" nonsense on with me (and a few did), I'd get annoyed and reply with something like:

    "I'm not going to repeat what XXXX has said, or what I've heard YYYY say. Don't even TRY and tell me that 'shut up' is out of order after what you hear from each other. You're talking rubbish and you know it! Do you know what 'hypocrite' means?"(etc).

    They always accept what I'm saying, they know it's **** but doesn't stop them trying it on with teachers.

    More fool anyone who falls for this one!!

    (BTW, who says we have to be 'beyond reproach'? I occasionally make mistakes, everyone does occasionally. I just make sure I own up as I believe in being honest).
     
  3. After about 10 attempts to ask one of my Y8's to be quiet, I finally yelled at him to shut his mouth until he was asked to open it. He promptly burst into hysterical tears and when I finally coaxed him outside the classroom to calm him down he actually said to me "you can't say that to another human being" and carried on blubbing. I told him we could discuss after the lesson and got "I'll tell you where I'll discuss it, I'll discuss it at home with my mum!"

    Am meeting mum on Monday and wish I had the courage to tell her that her little prince was a pain in the bum drama queen who needed to man up and accept that there are 29 other kids in the class which means we don't have time to listen to every thought he has at the expense of all else!

    Rant over. Now I will probably just placate mum and resist the urge to set the little toe rag a detention next time I see him!
     
  4. bacardibreezer

    bacardibreezer New commenter

    Love it!
    Think I'll buy a tambourine for my Y9s and 11s. [​IMG]
     
  5. I would - and have said similar to parents who I believe need this explaining to them. I wish more teachers would. There is this belief that parents can be rude to us without anything coming of it.

    There were audible gasps when I spoke on the staffroom phone to a parent who I'd called about darling daughter's behaviour. She told me that if I was a better teacher she would behave better. She said this a lot apparently. I replied that it was her job as a parent to teach manners and respect for others and if she'd done a better job of it we wouldn't be having this conversation.
    I guess looking like a big old battleaxe helps me get away with this, I stood my ground and refused to apologise when the head discussed it with me. He knew I was right, and I know he knew it.
     
  6. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    Bravo WemAles!
     
  7. kittylion

    kittylion Established commenter

    Good for you WemAles - you are a triumph of common sense and I wish you worked at my school.
     
  8. One of the most useful and effective conversations I have with pupils in my classes (secondary) is: "I will always treat you with respect, and I expect the same from you." If they told us to "shut up" we would be outraged, because it is RUDE.
     
  9. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    It may well be rude as an opening gambit , but when polite entreaties are hitting deaf ears, it's appropriate in my opinion for getting their attention. I observed a lesson once where the teacher arrived, said "Shut up and sit down!" and no-one batted an eyelid ... and everyone complied.
    Challenging pupils/classes will always look for another angle to avoid listening or working and will claim that it's swearing/ bad language. It isn't! For them to even claim to be shocked is ridiculous, given the quite outrageous words that emanate from their mouths at every opportunity.
    A pupil telling a teacher to shut up would be inappropriate as they'd have not grasped the protocol of a working classroom and the different roles required of us. If their noisy behaviour is preventing teaching nad learning taking place , and ultra-polite requests are being ignored, the teacher has a right to register their annoyance by altering their usual language, whilst still avoiding swear words
    The pupils need to see us a human beings too, not some robotic paragon who will take whatever $rap they decide to mete out!
     
  10. Drjekyll - are you for real?
    I'd be outraged if student told me to shut up while I was teaching because its not up to them who talks in my room, not because its rude. It isn't!!
    I'd be equally outraged if a student politely asked me to shush, or be quiet please if I was explaining something to the whole class. So wouldany teacher who had any sort of presence or authority in a class.
    Would you be annoyed if a child kept politely asking you to be quiet if you were explaining work, or giving instructions to the class, drjekyll?
    (I hope you were playing devils advokate, btw).
     
  11. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    It's no wonder so many pupils feel entitled to act and speak exactly as they wish and then complain if a teacher dares to say something as tame as 'shut up!' when there are teachers validating the pupils' stance and SMT who require teachers to apologise for such 'outbursts'.
     
  12. I had this conversation with an ex colleague. Saying 'Shut up' isn't swearing, you're giving them a direct order, ie stop speaking. Cocky *** head lads and mouthy little sl@gs. That's what we have to deal with these days unfortunately!
     
  13. [​IMG]
    Post 18 (Garyconyers) sums up the daftness of this whole conversation IMO.
     
  14. advocate
     
  15. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    Agreed. If I remember rightly, he left teaching to become a policeman and can preumably now tell youngsters to 'shut up!" without his employers reprimanding him.
     
  16. I have to say that I find it very strange that it would ever be acceptable for a teacher to tell a child to 'shut up'. I constantly reprimand students who say it to other students in the classroom - what sort of role model would I be if I started saying it myself?

    I don't take the view that because students say all sorts of insults to each other (**** your mum etc), that it somehow lets teachers 'off the hook' to say something that,as in normal conversation it is actually pretty rude.

    If you say 'shut up' in the classroom, you are in my opinion setting a very bad tone, and a pretty low standard. It's hypocrisy to expect students to be polite if you are telling students to 'shut up'.

    Also, we should bear in mind that insults normally escalate from 'shut up' to something else much worse, so why should the teacher be the catalyst for bad language and disrespect in the classroom?

    I admit to saying it once or twice (in a moment of madness) - have actually apologised as I personally feel it's unacceptable, and as a teacher you totally lose the moral high ground.
     
  17. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    'Shut Up!' is not swearing!
    'Shut the FU$K up!" is but I always have a pause between shouting SHUT and UP and say the FU$K in my head only!
    Problem solved!
     
  18. musiclover1

    musiclover1 New commenter

    It's an awful phrase and I object to my own children using it at home and would not use it at school. It's not an acceptable way of speaking for me.
     
  19. are you for real?
     
  20. That's your opinion. I think its acceptable.
    You'd be a hypocrite, fair enough. Occasionally a student will tell another student to shup up when they've interrupted me before I can say anything. I thank them for this.
    I agree - I don't think 'shut up' is particularly rude. I wouldn't be offended if a mate told me to shut up if I was rambling.
    In my opinion you're not setting a bad tone. Shut up isn't rude in my opinion, as a rule, but it depends on the context.
    That's rubbish. In my experience, in my classroom, I tell a kid to shut up, they shut up, I continue teaching/ the class continues working. Kids I teach don't need an escelator to insult each other - if they want to insult each other they do.
    If what you do works for you in your school then good for you. Different approaches work for different teachers in different schools. What annoys me is the arrogance of someone saying, "this works for me, this is what I do, so I think this should be applied to all teachers in all schools...." There are things I say and do, approaches I take to situations that wouldn't work for other teachers in my school with the same students, never mind in other schools.
    BTW - if a student told me to shut up when I was teaching I'd be annoyed - not because shup up is rude, but the interruption is. I'd be equally (no less) annoyed if someone said "can you be quiet please".
     

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