1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest, welcome to the TES Community!

    Connect with like-minded professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.

    Don't forget to look at the how to guide.

    Dismiss Notice

Shouting (again)

Discussion in 'Behaviour' started by awe1, Feb 2, 2011.

  1. I know this is an old issue but any advice would be good. The other day I had a child push another child into a door and he hurt his back. I organised first aid and spoke to the child who pushed him. He has adhd (easy to say i know but he does) and anger issues and anything makes him esculate into terrible temper tantrums. As I have no help or TA, even though this has been noted by Ofsted and any other visitors that a TA is needed in my class (oh and i got goods on my obs), all I can do is send him out the class to calm down. Because of this i was speaking to him in a calm manner and he started his rant and I said no this is not acceptable. I said this in a firm manner but didnt raise my voice. The child obviously didnt like this and started shouting and again I kept calm and everytime he spoke I said in a firm way that this was not acceptable.
    I have to point out that his brother who is in the school is prone to running out of the property and I thought being calm was the best policy.
    Subsequently the headmistress walked past shouted at him for being disrespectful to a member of staff and every time he spoke shouted at him until he shut up. She then lectured me stating that I should have shouted at the child, really ripping into him school because of his actions. I explained because of his needs I didnt want to esculate the situation and that I had other children to think off. She said no this was totally wrong and I really need to start getting a grip of this child.
    So my question is this should I have ripped into him shouting at him making him be quiet and thus go down to his level or did i do the right thing?
     
  2. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    If you feel that what the HT did worked and would work again in the future for you then do it sometimes. Do whatever it takes, within the law, to get the child to behave. If you think it didn't work, or wouldn't work for you then don't.

    You do need to how that child, and the rest of the class who presumably saw the assault and your handling of it, that such behaviour is totally wrong and completely against your rules and what you will tolerate. If the class saw a child assaulted and the perpetrator simply spoken to calmly, they may not learn just how wrong it is. It really is a serious incident, a child needed first aid, and all the children needed to know that.

    I'm not generally one for shouting and yelling, but sometimes it is the best thing to do to get a point across and to stop a child continuing with poor behaviour. Don't feel you should have or shouldn't have. You did what you thought best at the time. It is up to you to decide whether you would do the same again next time or do things differently.
     
  3. No as stated i spoke to the child firmly (not calm) but didnt raise my voice. The child concerned has numerous triggers for his adhd behavior and I didnt want the incident esculating. The fact is the HT stated that I MUST! shout at this child because of him raising his voice is not acceptable. The fact that he hurt anther child was beside the point (HT words).
     
  4. YesMrBronson

    YesMrBronson New commenter

    To the OP: The above is good advice from minnieminx.
    However, it seems from your response that you have already decided that you don't think shouting at this child is appropriate. I wonder then why you posed the question?
     
  5. There's nothing wrong with a very occasional bellow. If you do it too often, then it ceases working, but sometimes it's exactly what's needed. I find it a great warm-up for the emotional blackmail which explains how you actually really like the class/child/member of SMT and feel really let down.
     
  6. Its called venting. Also I was interested how other teachers would have handled the situation.
     
  7. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    To be totally honest I would probably have had a good yell in the situation you describe. Hurting another child is a total no no in my classroom for all children. If it had happened I'd have been so stunned and so keen for it never ever to be repeated, I'd have really gone for it.

    Yes the child might have run off on that occasion, but he would have been left in no doubt that I was not impressed, as would the rest of the class. I honestly don't think a gentle chat would have got the same message across.


    Thank you to other posters for you support, I was a bit confused by the response to my first.
     
  8. I have serious concerns about the advice given by your headmistress. Having seen a head behave like this i find it escalates and now she very rarely can even manage a smile to anyone. You are quite correct however, in my experience these children won't always react well to shouting, infact it often makes it worse.
    As far as the rest of the class is concerned, they have to be aware this behaviour is not acceptable but you also have to build into these young minds tolerance and compassion and talking to people about behaviour they don't like. As you clearly don't class the heads actions as appropriate behaviour prehaps you could give her some of her own medicine and yell at her and ask how she feels afterwards!!!!!!!
    We also have the issues of not sufficient TA's and even statemented support not being provided. Quote "It has to come out the school budget" so much for 'Every Child Matters' It should be Every Child Matters as long as they don't cost to much!!!!
     
  9. I am disgusted at being any part of the education system, and wonder what adults these children are going to be. Grow up teachers! You're the ones who are supposed to be setting the example to these young minds. Lead by example!!!! If you can't do the job without venting your anger on some one smaller than yourself get out.
     
  10. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    Given that this child has ADHD, shouting might work on a one-off, but isn't likely to solve the long term problems. I think you handled it the right way, and obviously what the HT did on this occasion worked, but there is going to have to be a lot of counselling, coaching and restorative work done to build the emotional intelligence of this child so that he will learn to control these outbursts. Just as a dyslexic learns intrinsic strategies to cope with their difficulties, this child will have to do the same, or the rest of his school career will just be a never-ending cycle of shouting matches.

     
  11. Thanks for everyones comments, I find it very interesting. I spoke to another teacher who said her son who has his own problems never responds to shouting too. Im satisfied that I did what was right for me at the time and I will take on board what the head says as it might be suitable another time.
    Her reaction to the situation might also explain why when I explained why I did it I got the reply No totally wrong. Maybe we all could take a lesson in tolerance!
     
  12. Shouting is aggressive and, in secondary at least, is more likely to lead to the child shouting back at you. Also, I know that when I've shouted in the past, it's been to vent my own anger rather than for the benefit of the child.
     
  13. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    But please don't extrapolate that to suggest it is the same for everyone else.

    Sometimes it works well and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it is the right thing to do and sometimes it isn't.

    Out of control ranting is never ever the right thing to do, but a controlled raised voice coupled with a stern look is not in the least bit unprofessional or wrong.
     
  14. We were not talking about a controlled raised voice and stern look!
    we were talking about someone shouting down and intimidating a child from what I read. I still stand my comments that this is a loss of control, maybe temper or maybe an inability to cope with the situation.
     
  15. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    Ahhh well, the written word never gives the whole picture, nor a necessarily wholly unarguable one. I got a totally different picture, but the reality is probably a third one again.
     
  16. YesMrBronson

    YesMrBronson New commenter

    It is possible to intimidate a child in a controlled way. Sometimes that's wahat is needed for their own good. Shouting does not necessarily equate to a loss of control.

    Nice emotive use of the word "child" in place of "pupil" btw.
     
  17. In response to minnie minx and yesmrbronson
    I'm sorry I have to agree with rainbow56 on this, I have just read through the comments and I had the same opinion.
    "shouted at him until he shut up." (Quote from original letter.) This does not give the impression of a controlled raised voice and a stern look does it?
    I've just looked back over the comments to find everyone has used the word 'child' including you yesmrbronson!!!!!!!! so not sure about your last comment.
    Please remember they are CHILDREN. I think that's what teachers forget sometimes.
    "If a seed of a lettuce will not grow, we do not blame the lettuce. Instead, the fault lies with us for not having nourished the seed properly." - Buddhist proverb
     
  18. YesMrBronson

    YesMrBronson New commenter

    No need to be sorry.
    You're right it does notgive the impression you describe. But I didn't say it did.
    My point is that saying "someone shouting down and intimidating a child" and saying "someone shouting down and intimidating a pupil" or even "someone shouting down and intimidating a naughty pupil" provides one with different impressions each time.
    I do not forget that they are children. It is often pupils rather than teachers who need to be reminded of this.
    Are you sure that's a Buddhist proverb? I think it might be from the OFSTED handbook.
     
  19. They may be children, but they are also adults to be.


    Shouting is an aggressive act, and should only be used when the situation dictates. A physical accident should not necessitate it. Shouting is more like a dramatic technique to deal with emotional states, not a response to a physical condition as you have described.
     
  20. YesMrBronson

    YesMrBronson New commenter

    There was no "physical accident". One boy deliberately pushed another into a door. When reprimanded he shouted a rant at the teacher.
    To what "physical accident" do you refer?
     

Share This Page