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Should they throw the book at him?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Duke of York, Mar 14, 2016.

  1. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    Listening to the case of the teenager who killed a police officer during a high-speed chase on PM this evening, I was told that the lad had only just been released from prison. Prior the the tragedy, he had been out buying drugs, had burgled a property from which he stole the vehicle he was driving and tried to evade a "stinger" that the PC was in the process of laying to stop the car when the death happened.

    What might we glean from the story so far?
  2. jacob

    jacob Lead commenter

    I will put my neck out and say that some right-wing type, possibly the Daily Mail, will find some way to blame teachers for the lad's behaviour.
    delnon, Middlemarch and sabrinakat like this.
  3. senlady

    senlady Senior commenter

    And was/has been addicted to cannabis since the age of 6. So I feel I can 'glean' that he was a vulnerable youngster.

    However, does any of this mean we should not throw the book at him?
    grumpydogwoman likes this.
  4. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    It seems such a shame that someone's life is pretty much over before you get out of your teens but in his case unfortunately it is.

    Don't have too much sympathy, I suspect he knew what he was doing when he ran that poor policeman over.

    Not that he will ever be willing or able to explain that to his widow and children.
  5. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    Who paid for/provided his cannabis at the age of 6? Find them, and prosecute them. Plus his parents for letting it happen.
    wanet and grumpydogwoman like this.
  6. Orkrider2

    Orkrider2 Star commenter

    It makes me really sad. Unfortunately, the question of what should be done with him now is pretty much void IMO. He killed someone, and he would have been aware of the penalty for those actions before, during and after the event, but that wasn't enough to stop him. He is now destined to a life as little more than a statistic in the criminal justice system.
    The more pertinent question is what is going to be done to help kids like him when they're 6 and being given access to cannabis (presumably by someone much older), to try and prevent a downwards spiral into situations like this before their lives are completely screwed up.
    Unfortunately, and this is the bit that makes me sad, the answer is probably nothing. What government is going to put money into preventing a potential crime when a) there is no real way of measuring the effectiveness of preventing potential crime in a decade's time and b) any positive results are not likely to be seen until their term of power is long over, by which time they will not be able to benefit from taking the credit? Probably none.
    coffeekid, InkyP and grumpydogwoman like this.
  7. les25paul

    les25paul Star commenter

    Likewise some left-wing type will claim its not his fault because he had a disadvantaged upbringing, came from a broken home and deserves counselling rather then an extended spell "banged up in the slammer."

    Quickly adding there is nothing wrong with counselling and I hope that the Police Officer's colleagues are offered some.
  8. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    A rope is required.
  9. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    I sat in a briefing recently in my new school [behaviour is generally good] and heard the HT saying how we needed to be more understanding towards the poorly behaved pupils as they had terrible troubles ... and then he listed some.

    And I couldn't seem to bring myself to care... if a minority of pupils disrupt lessons then they should face punishment, preferably permanent exclusion. But that's frowned upon these days.

    I know it isn't on topic... just seemed to chime with what you said Les.
    delnon, T0nyGT, wanet and 2 others like this.
  10. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Still people claim that cannabis production, dealing and possession are victimless crimes.


    Rest in peace. PC Phillips.
  11. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    According to the Telegraph,

    "Williams denies the murder of PC Phillips and the attempted grievous bodily harm of his colleague PC Thomas Birkett, 23.

    The trial continues."

    Lets wait until there has been a judgement and sentencing. I hope the trial continues to a 'sensible' conclusion, with Williams locked up for a very long time.
    grumpydogwoman likes this.
  12. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    What other outcome could there possible be ?
  13. Dragonlady30

    Dragonlady30 Star commenter

    Apparently, he had a £100 a day cannabis habit. I'm no expert but wouldn't that leave him in a coma?
  14. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    Maybe the DM will, but don't teachers have the ability to counter that with examples of how their hands are tied in changing problem behaviour?

    What of the court sentence the lad received when he was sent to prison? His probation? Had the lad never seen a doctor in his life who might have picked up on his drug habit? Had intervention by social workers never featured in his life?

    Could anything at all have been done to avert the twin tragedies of the death and the devastation it will bring to the copper's family and the waste of a life behind bars?

    Or are everyone's hands tied?
  15. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    The war on drugs was never fought.

    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
  16. yodaami2

    yodaami2 Lead commenter

    Wow 6? Surely they've got that wrong?
    Serious child neglect! What 6 year old with even the most mediocre/ inadequate parent could get in this situation? If he was on the "register" or in care social services have much to answer for as well. Sympathy/ despair for the 6 year old.
    No sympathy for the teenager though. If he is capable of burglary and theft of a vehicle then he is capable of understanding the consequences of his actions.
  17. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    Which are?

    So far as we can gather, from the information we have, opportunities for the youngster to understand the consequences of his actions came when he was imprisoned. Days later, after his release, a house was burgled, a car stolen and a copper killed.

    Might we presume that when the next sentence this jerk is given, he will wake up to the fruitlessness of his existence and his parents' regret he ended up this way?

    Was there never an occasion when this seemingly waste of a skin's life have been turned round?

    I heard that as part of his defence, when he was released from prison, he became one of the hidden homeless.Those people who don't get added to the homeless register because they sleep on friends sofas when they can, but live lives where that can end at any time.

    Without a home to go to after experiencing the consequences of a failed life, and no prospect whatsoever of a job, where might we imagine such a person will turn to other than crime for survival?

    I don't have a political stance on the matter and welcome views for every part other political spectrum to tell me what might have been a better outcome for this man and the copper and his family if things had been done their way.
  18. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    C'mon; he was younger than Bowie so let's cut him some slack.
  19. lindenlea

    lindenlea Star commenter

    He phoned his mum and told her what he'd done. She said
    "What are you like!"
    Makes your heart sink into your boots.
    HelenREMfan likes this.
  20. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    If he's been smoking spliffs since the age of 6 he has DEFINITELY been doing other stuff. I bet that will have included amphetamines. It destroys regions of your frontal lobe. Consequences include effects upon:

    • Logic, reasoning and judgment
    • Blood pressure levels
    • Impulse control
    Yes, I'm speculating but years of experience both professionally and personally tells me I'm probably right.

    The lad is fooked (technical term, mods!). Fooked, I tell ya. Tragic. What to do with him? Keep him under lock and key for his sake, for the sake of everyone else. He isn't capable of functioning 'properly' That potential has been lost/destroyed/damaged beyond repair.

    How, how, HOW did it come to this?

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