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Shocking Unions support keeping British teachers low paid in crummy conditions.

Discussion in 'Education news' started by binaryhex, Jun 25, 2018.

  1. binaryhex

    binaryhex Lead commenter

  2. sparkleghirl

    sparkleghirl Star commenter

    The Unions lost power because too many teachers stopped supporting them. Chickens coming home to roost.
  3. teachntravel

    teachntravel New commenter

    I wouldn't look at it like this at all, but perhaps because I am indeed an overseas, out of UK/EU teacher.
    It is a fact that there are not enough teachers to fill positions here, and there is a massive recruitment crisis. It is a fact that in other countries, such as Canada (where I am from) there is a massive teacher surplus and many teachers are finding themselves without work. If they want to put the work in, come here and work in a job that neither a UK or an EU teacher want, it shouldn't be an issue.
    And yes, employers have to prove that a UK or EU citizen didn't even apply to the post before they can allocate it to a non-EU or UK citizen. I know when I got my job, they had no applicants, and they even advertised twice to prove it for the labour market test.
    I think that this movement is in an effort to solve recruitment and retention problems across the country.
  4. moscowbore

    moscowbore Star commenter

    "Tes has today launched a campaign ..."

    Since when did TES give a monkey's **** about teachers?

    TES has never published a story about the outrageous misappropriation of academy funds, never published a story about the criminal behaviour of international schools, never criticised OFSTED for inconsistent or daft judgements, never publicised the true effects of the cuts to schools budgets ...... I could go on.

    Now all of a sudden they care? Yeah, right.
  5. Jolly_Roger15

    Jolly_Roger15 Star commenter

    There is a massive surplus of teachers in Britain, @teachntravel. Of what there might be a shortage is the sort of teachers schools want to employ, which excludes expensive, experienced teachers, great numbers of which have been combed out of the profession in recent years, and those coming out of training colleges, seeking their first jobs.

    I agree with you, @moscowbore. There should enough elephants to fill the Serengeti in the TES editorial room.
  6. Jamvic

    Jamvic Star commenter

    Members of the general public will be so confused by this issue. After all didn’t those teacher recruitment advertisements seen on TV a while back say that teachers were earning 65K.
  7. henrycreswicke

    henrycreswicke Occasional commenter

    When I read "let them teach", I mistakenly thought the teaching profession was finally coming round to its senses: wanting to allow teachers to get on and do their job free from observation and scrutiny.

    How wrong I was.
    Mrsmumbles, hammie and teachntravel like this.
  8. teachntravel

    teachntravel New commenter

    I understand what you are saying, @Jolly_Roger15 , and I don't disagree that experienced, seasoned teachers are leaving in droves, often because of the expense of keeping them. But schools that are sponsoring these people are agreeing to pay them the appropriate wages, and have to by law.
  9. peapicker

    peapicker Star commenter

    Mrsmumbles and schoolsout4summer like this.
  10. binaryhex

    binaryhex Lead commenter

    agathamorse and BetterNow like this.
  11. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    TES has published stories about all those things (except maybe international schools). They crop up in TES all the time. Are you sure we read the same magazine?
    chelsea2 and tonymars like this.
  12. peapicker

    peapicker Star commenter


    SEBREGIS Lead commenter

    Sorry, perhaps I'm grabbing the wrong end of the stick here -

    Is your point that the teaching unions should only be campaigning for the rights of British teachers, rather than trying to prevent unfair treatment of international teachers as well? And that by making all subjects shortage subjects, we will undermine British teachers by allowing schools to recruit overseas? Which results in them employing cheap labour from overseas rather than paying more for older, experienced staff here already?
  14. teachntravel

    teachntravel New commenter

    @SEBREGIS you have summed up the points I was trying (albeit, badly) to make. International teachers aren't taking jobs from British teachers, because that can't actually happen in the immigration process. As an international teacher myself, I applaud TES and the Unions for trying to push the idea of making teaching a shortage occupation; that doesn't mean people will waltz right in, but people will have an easier time of it should they apply and want to be there. International teachers are paid the same as British teachers, we are certainly not "cheap labour", but likely what is being implied is they are young teachers who are just starting their careers, who thus would come cheaper than teachers here who have been teaching a long time.
    1 person likes this.

    SEBREGIS Lead commenter

    I don't think that the unions are trying to undercut UK teachers by making it easier for schools to recruit cheap foreign labour. What they seem to be doing is trying to protect overseas teachers from having contracts terminated because of visa problems.
    emerald52, agathamorse and install like this.
  16. catbefriender

    catbefriender Lead commenter

    Need I reiterate yet AGAIN that when the DfE stopped reporting the figures in 2016 we already had 335,000 QTs of working age in the UK and 100,000 of those were NQTs who had failed to complete Induction and in 2012, the number of NQTs gaining Induction posts in their first year was down 12% on the previous year which had been declining since 2008.

    Therefore the numbers now are probably even higher. The DfE has a return to teaching programme and in 2015, only 49 of the 1,000 plus teachers on the scheme got work. Why? Because that's all the UK schools wanted to employ of them and don't kid yourself that they were all rubbish, I've been on CPD with some of them and a lot were awesome. Of the Maths teachers I met, a lot had A level, BScs and PGCEs in Maths, some even had MScs and HoD experience.


    Therefore there are loads of UK teachers willing and able already and the unions, DfE, schools and everyone who's in the system knows.

    From the report below we learn that over 50s teachers in school have, 'fallen from 21.7 per cent in 2010, to 15.6 per cent last year,' (2017) and 'the number of teachers taking retirement throughout the 2015-16 financial year is actually lower than previous years.'

    Therefore showing that those teachers who left are most probably NOT leaving because of retirement and that academies pay teachers less than LEAs unless they are SLTs.

    It must be remembered that teachers leaving the profession, may not be that. They may be being persuaded to leave.:oops:


    We know that the international teachers gain help with relocation fees up to £5,000 each, and there are special training programme put in place for them over the holidays etc. and I am sure TES have a vested interest in them being here. Perhaps it is now being recognised that their presence is not creating a HUGE change in attainment especially with the already hard to teach groups and their success rates are equivalent to the UK teachers, who are unable to get the posts the overseas teachers have taken, and the £5,000 relocation fees, plus the additional specialist CPD, plus the tax and NI contribution UK teachers are unable to make, equates to the same amount.:rolleyes:

    More should be done to support the UK QTs who are out of schools and who want to return to the classroom as it will pose a HUGE economic burden to the UK taxpayers when it comes to

    a. paying out benefits to teachers unemployed or underemployed
    b. those who are employed being underemployed and therefore paying less tax, NI etc.
    c.less money being paid into their pension system, possibly creating more pension credit claims in the future
    d. our going into Brexit and this country needing all the money it can save.

    I think the DWP are finally getting somewhere in convincing the DfE to do something about the huge number of UK QTs out of schools, because after all they have to pay for all of it in the end especially now the Baby Boomers getting closer and closer to retirement age.

    The DWP thinks about the future whereas the DfE thinks only in the now.

    Should be interesting to see how this all pans out. I've got the popcorn ready!:cool:

    I'm team UK QTs who want to work in schools!:)
  17. hammie

    hammie Lead commenter

  18. moscowbore

    moscowbore Star commenter

    This is illegal surely.

    5 mins of reading the school website reveals that it belongs to a thing called the The De Curci Trust which appears to be a MAT. Even for a MAT this is the most blatant attempt to teach without teachers I have ever seen. Surely parents and governors must be alarmed by this.
  19. David Getling

    David Getling Lead commenter

    This all takes me back to the H1B visa situation about 20 years ago, in the USA. Corporations were squealing pitifully about the dire shortage of I.T. staff. However, the truth was very different. What there was a shortage of was experienced American I.T. professionals who were prepared to work for peanuts. The visas were used to import cheap labour from India. It was not uncommon to read about American staff being forced to train up their cheap replacements before they themselves were sacked.

    Any of this ring a bell?
  20. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide


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