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Sharing of own resources / unfair work distribution

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by natalielonglegs, Jun 3, 2019.

  1. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    I don't want to be credited for the kids' achievement.
    I want to see them do well, no matter how they get there.
    I guess that's the difference.
    pepper5, Pomza and Lara mfl 05 like this.
  2. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    Just proves what a dummy I was for all those years.

    Primary teacher. There were some reading books in boxes. The rest of it? The maths, PE, art, history? And every other subject? Off the top of my head. To suit my class.

    Later on. There was a WJEC employability course with objectives. So I designed the tasks through which I could deliver those objectives. I always left everything for the next person. I hoped they'd improve it and adapt it to their groups.

    I simply do not see the problem. I got my salary and the kids got taught. I didn't spend absurd amounts of time on any of it. But it was my job. If I wanted to be an educational publisher or author then I was in the wrong job!

    SEBREGIS Lead commenter

    I think you’ve nailed it with ‘didn’t spend ridiculous time on any of it’.

    These days, the job is so pressurised that it’s hard to find time to develop good resources. So when people take yours and don’t even say thanks, it becomes frustrating. Because time is our most precious resource.

    As real term wages shrink, many of us look for other ways of making additional income - tutoring, marking exam papers etc, And oh look, these things I’ve toiled on long and hard. Perhaps these will buy me a bowls of gruel whilst I huddle by these twigs that I’ve collected. I’ll get the fire started with flint and steel because have you seen the cost of matches?

    The people I really feel sorry for are the folks who write text books. So many schools just copy pages from them . If we want to talk about copyright issues, I think it’s worst of all there.
  4. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    It would belong to you because writing a textbook isn't part of your job as a teacher in that school.
  5. Oldfashioned

    Oldfashioned Senior commenter

    This nonsense really annoys me. My employer doesn't own me. They don't own my ideas, how ridiculous. As such, I don't share anything I've made myself.

    When I walk out of the building at 3.15 that's me done with work and anything I now do is all mine. Sometimes I might share with a colleague I like but that is my decision.

    Joint planning schemes of work etc, yes clearly that's for anyone. Scheme of work I am asked to do in gained time or meetings, again fine. However, anything I do at home is mine.
  6. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    In general, life is better if we can avoid bitterness. Getting worked up about something, going to extra trouble to make life harder for somebody else, telling lies in order to avoid helping somebody - all these things just increase the resentment we may feel. Yes, we may be able to avoid sharing our resources, either because we lie about them or the school decides not to push it. We can just refuse to share them, which may result in disciplinary action and I don't think anybody could say if a tribunal, would find in our favour.

    Or, we could hand over the resources, which cost us nothing to do in terms of money or time. We then get a reputation as somebody who is kind, honest and helpful. And, for me at least, actually helping somebody brings a sense of satisfaction.

    We could argue for ages about the legality of withholding these resources, but I really don't think any of us can say for sure. But why worry about that when there is such an easy solution available?
  7. Lara mfl 05

    Lara mfl 05 Star commenter

    Very sensible reply Piranha which looks sensibly at the situation. And SEBREGIS makes a valid point about how much more is expected these days in terms of resources.

    I thin there is a discrepancy here between 'older teachers' and newer, younger teachers. Many professionals have always had to work beyond the 'hours in the Office' and do not have that 'I go in at 8:30 &finish at 3/4 and anything before /after that is 'in my own time' and 'belongs to me'.

    Us 'oldies' realise how much we benefitted from our colleagues support, advice and free-sharing of ideas and resources, something I don't think there's time for these days, and know how 'working together as a team benefitted our students. Whereas many today have none of that collegial support, feel they're hard-pressed and may 'begrudge' sharing resources, when they're working into the early hours to get them done. If everyone shared the load it would be more even as it used to be.
    grumpydogwoman and Piranha like this.
  8. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    It amuses me how people seem to covet the resources they have made themselves.
    In my old age, I shall sit in my rocking chair defunct from productively working any more, and in that chair I shall be hugging my favourite family picture from seventy years ago which I took myself, my hot water bottle with home made cover for comfort, my favourite large print book to pass the hours and MY TEACHING RESOURCES because I made them. I'll look at them every so often and sigh contentedly, maybe dribble a bit when I remember the hours I spent on them.

    Less flippantly, it irritates me, to be honest, the concept of MY resources. Owning my teaching resources and carrying them away with me when I finish a job is as sense defying and universally limiting as an architect who on his retirement dismantles the best bridge he designed in his career and rebuilds it in his back garden through resentment that the bridge bore no plaque with his name on. How mean. How small minded. How misconceived, and thoughtless to those subsequent generations of people who he disabled from crossing.
  9. Lara mfl 05

    Lara mfl 05 Star commenter

    I agree with you on the concept of 'MY resources'.
    Though I would have no objection to anyone taking away 'a copy of their plans' to help develop an even better design in another workplace. Any plans can be adapted, in fact would almost certainly need to be. Perhaps that's why people 'cling on to the idea of 'possession', not realising that they're not always transferrable without adjustments being made and are just a 'jumping off point' for other colleagues to save them some initial legwork.
    grumpydogwoman and Piranha like this.
  10. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    Are you saying that the law has been wrongly described, or that the law is bad/nonsense law?

    If the former you are wrong. As confirmed on the very many links on this thread and others previously the copyright in all resources you produce "in the course of your employment" belongs to your employer irrespective of where or when you produce them [Copyright Designs and Patent Act 1988 s11(2)].

    Your employer does not own you but they do own your ideas if produced "in the course of your employment".
    Pomza, Lara mfl 05 and Piranha like this.
  11. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    I agree. It is probably against the rules, but I think only the worst of schools might object. I wouldn't mind a colleague taking stuff I have shared home (although I would if they tried to sell it!). I find it flattering that others like my resources enough to use them.

    I really appreciated the help I got from colleagues early in my teaching career. Perhaps that is why I am happier than those who were not helped like this, to share what I have created.
    Lara mfl 05 and grumpydogwoman like this.
  12. Stiltskin

    Stiltskin Star commenter

    I know. Those film companies and musicians are just as bad, creating things and making us pay them to watch/listen to them.Slightly different to drug companies perhaps though? I think there is a need then to find a way to hit that laughing psychic regarding copyright of certain things.

    Agree with this ^
    These days we're negotiating pay when we change jobs so there's nothing to say you can't add in something about copyright of resources as well. Maybe saying that any teaching resources you create will be done under a creative commons license allowing the work to be shared freely. Or perhaps schools could actually state that in contracts from the start.

    I've seen things I've created ending up being used by others to make money, and whilst annoying on discovering that, life is too short to care much about it. At least they're maybe helping slightly more people than they would otherwise which was the point they were created for.
    ridleyrumpus and Lara mfl 05 like this.
  13. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    page 45
    Plan and teach lessons to the classes they are assigned to teach within the context of the school’s plans, curriculum and schemes of work.

    page 48
    In addition to the hours a teacher is required to be available for work under paragraph 51.5 or 51.6, a teacher must work such reasonable additional hours as may be necessary to enable the effective discharge of the teacher’s professional duties, including in particular planning and preparing courses and lessons; and assessing, monitoring, recording and reporting on the learning needs, progress and achievements of assigned pupils.


    It's your job! Just don't cream-cracker yourself doing it to the extent that you actually feel bitter and resentful that you JUST DID YOUR JOB.

  14. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    Perhaps it is different in a yoi or prison for GENERIC work as, unlike teachers, IIRC you are not expected to work outside of hours for marking etc.as you are not allowed to take work off and onto site?
    grumpydogwoman likes this.
  15. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    I created a lot of resources over 30+ years of teaching, and adapted/modified & (hopefully) improved a lot of resources created by others. I always shared those, and was happy to do so... Including when I left.

    But, I have to say, if a school ever demanded that I share my resources, threatened me with legal action etc. I'd be so annoyed at their approach I'd find a way of sabotaging the resources so they would be useless..It's about respect and politeness - treat me as a professional and I'll respond as one. Treat me as someone who can't be trusted, but needs threats to work, and I'll react negatively.

    Sounds like yet another case of an SLT unfit for purpose, TBH...

    NB I don't give a fig about the law on this issue, either. If I'm working at home, in my time, it's my product, not the school's... And (as I said) treat me right, and I'll be delighted to share it.
  16. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    Err no.

    Copyright and patents only exists for a fixed period. They are there to ENCOURAGE the inventor to disclose their work and in exchange they get a period of time when they will be free of completion.
  17. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    Of course.
    Just because I don't want to own what I create does not mean I'd not want to use it too.

    Some people have actually posted suggestions to leave copies of their stuff and sabotage them or make them hard to find.
    That's so incredibly bitter and self involved.

    And some people have contrived analogies with musical creation or art work.
    Again-that's so self-involved. Music and art are commercial endeavours. They lead to profit. And sometimes investment. And sometimes commission.
    But teaching resources lead to changing kids' lives. You wont get a commission as their teacher on every job interview they get on the basis of a certificate in your subject.
    No analogy.
    Piranha and Lara mfl 05 like this.
  18. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    Have a look on TES resources I have dl plenty that carry a logo/metadata that makes the provinence questionable.
    border_walker likes this.
  19. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    Does this apply to those working in yoi and prisons?

    I know someone who works at a prison and they are not allowed to take work out or into the site.
  20. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    I was trying to be facetious. I know it's not a good analogy. :)

    Just attempting to express my frustration that
    a/ teachers still seem to think they're not remunerated for planning - they are
    b/ teachers don't seem to want to share the tools of their trade that are only there to benefit students

    BUT BUT BUT....!
    • If she's hourly-paid then I can better understand her dissatisfaction. But she really should have contracted to be paid for those hours out of the classroom.
    • If you feel that your pay is not commensurate with your work/abilities/experience then join a union and be active within it to redress the injustice.
    • I know that the good nature of teachers is often abused.
    Lara mfl 05 likes this.

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