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Shaking Hands

Discussion in 'Education news' started by Iftilsi, Jun 7, 2016.

  1. delnon

    delnon Lead commenter

    Perhaps not; but claiming a faith and being faith-ful are not necessarily concomitant.
  2. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    This is my point.
  3. delnon

    delnon Lead commenter

    Then we agree. Which makes me wonder whether the OP is indeed a Muslim.
  4. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Wonder but don't suppose that an ad hominem argument against @Iftilsi will upset his position by one inch.
  5. delnon

    delnon Lead commenter

    The obsessed are immune to reason.
  6. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    The irrational, obsessed with rationality, don't realise their deficit.
  7. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    No doubt about either of those points.
  8. delnon

    delnon Lead commenter

    "Sounds good, but doesn't actually tie you in to meaning anything."
    When I googled your comment I was linked to an infinite number of simian sites on obsessive compulsive disorder.
    Have you had that cool drink yet? :)
  9. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    You google my posts? Serendipitous sites, then.
  10. monicabilongame

    monicabilongame Star commenter

    So who decides what constitutes membership of a particular religion? The people in that religion? The people outside that religion? The people who think they are the only ones who can define what that religion is about/should be about even though there are interpretations of it?

    I am not a muslim. Have I the right to tell someone else who self-identifies as a muslim that they are wrong, based on what I know about the religion/the interpretation I have of it?

    On many employment forms there is a section asking whether you consider yourself to have a disability. it does not ask for a blue parking badge or a doctor's note. Equally on such forms there are boxes to tick for which religion, if any, you identify with. It does not ask for baptismal certificates or other proof.

    So, regardless of what you think the Q'ran or the Bible is about, regardless of your interpretation, who are you to say someone else is not a muslim or christian or hindu or whatever, if they say they are?

    In Islam it is up to each muslim to interpret the Q'ran for him/herself. If they interpret a text one way and you another, who are you to say they are wrong?
  11. harsh-but-fair

    harsh-but-fair Star commenter

    It seems it's Vince ...
    delnon and monicabilongame like this.
  12. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Refer to my previous illustration:
    Do you feel that a punch in the face requires interpretation? Or do you not wish to answer this question because you must then also apply the same rule to Muslims?

    Regarding your comment:
    I doubt that you actually believe this is a well-formed argument. I certainly don't.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2016
  13. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    It's anyone who bothers to put in a little thought.
  14. monicabilongame

    monicabilongame Star commenter

    So, tell me then @Vince-Ulam - if someone states/believes/holds that they are of a particular religion, especially one where the holy writings can be interpreted in the way they interpret them, and someone else does not interpret those writings in the same way, who does get to say whether the first person is actually of that religion or not? Who is the overriding authority here? Are the Westboro Baptists christian? Are members of Daesh muslim? Are members of the Khalistan Tigers sikhs?
  15. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Here's that question again from post #98:
    Your latest response is post #154 and it brings the total of questions you have asked me since to 12.. What's stopping you answering one question from post #98?
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2016
  16. monicabilongame

    monicabilongame Star commenter

    Nothing - I just wasn't aware that it was addressed to me. To answer your question, I would say that if that person considered themselves to be a christian, then in their eyes they are. It's not my business to judge them - and in christian terms, Jesus said he came to call the sinners to God, not the righteous (because obviously the righteous have no need of salvation, because they are not estranged from God).

    Now, your turn.
  17. slingshotsally

    slingshotsally Star commenter

    It just seems as if VU is going through a process


    Click and take your pick- he did the ad hominem on me by using my Aspergers to avoid answering my queries. Haram squared, to mock a disability, very unislamic.

    Vince has pride in his abilities to argue.

    Hes gone through most of the logical fallacies already, so you'll get a cut and paste rather than a reply.
  18. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    I can see how that could have happened. I only addressed it to you in three posts, to the previous two of which you have replied.

    If I say I'm a dragon then I am a dragon because it's my species and I should know.

    It is but I'm not going to respond to what we both know were countermeasures. You have answered my question, thank you, but given your good character and your attitude towards people like Westboro that answer is so unlikely to be the case as to render any agreement on this particular issue impossible. I can only recommend that you take some time to consider the possibility that when bad people claim to be good people that they too may be lying.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2016
  19. monicabilongame

    monicabilongame Star commenter

    Yeah, didn't think you would somehow. However, in not answering you have answered. And I shall certainly consider the possibility that when someone claims to be a dragon, they too may be lying.
  20. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

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