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Shaking Hands

Discussion in 'Education news' started by Iftilsi, Jun 7, 2016.

  1. slingshotsally

    slingshotsally Star commenter

    The mineral rights will divided between American multinationals and Aramco.
  2. slingshotsally

    slingshotsally Star commenter

    There are some customs that I not only want to ignore, I wish to eradicate because they endanger life, destroy hope and demean s as a society.

    In any liberal democracy, western or not, should not respect/accept/ignore customs or practices which permit abuse . It's like the Rubicon, for me, I don't speak for anyone else.

    [This comment/section/image has been removed for breaching our Community Guidelines/Terms and conditions]

    He is free to post his views- all the better so anyone can challenge them.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2016
    cellerdore likes this.
  3. SteveKindle

    SteveKindle Occasional commenter

    And if anyone were saying we should tolerate grooming/rape I'd completely agree.

    But we're talking about shaking hands.

    I can see why anyone would want to eradicate grooming and rape, destroying hope and demeaning a society.

    But does shaking hands do any of these?

    When my in-laws come over I agree her with an 'air kiss' to the cheek and him with a hand shake. Is this dangerous as it treats them differently?

    What if I French kissed her? If she (and he) then both said this was a step too far along the road of physical intimacy, would you I agree? I would, in case you were wondering.

    If a female Muslim finds that a hand shake from me is too physically intimate for her, then I'll respect that. And I can't see how that is anything like grooming or rape, I don't see that it destroys anyone's hope, and it doesn't demean society.

    Indeed, I'd go as far to say that it's wrong to force people into acts of a level of physical intimacy with which they are not comfortable. I believe that would demean society.
  4. delnon

    delnon Lead commenter

    For a muslim pupil to refuse to shake hands with his female teacher in a Swiss school is like a kaffir insisting on wearing his outdoor shoes in a muslim household.
  5. slingshotsally

    slingshotsally Star commenter

    I read the whole thread, SteveKindle.

    At first I mostly agreed with OP, but as I read further, I became horrified by Iftilisi's view. At point, I realised that hand shaking is just a minor indication of huge misogyny and some vile views.

    Really that simple.
    delnon likes this.
  6. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    With all this talk of grooming it's disconcerting to see so many people insisting, directly and via specious analogy, that they have a right to insist that a child touch them against that child's will. There are safeguarding issues if these people work in schools.
  7. cellerdore

    cellerdore Occasional commenter

    I do not think that the act of shaking hands is the reason why this was taken to court and why it is still generating discussion. It is not the level of physical intimacy here that is at question but the gender inequality that results from a notion that a man cannot touch a woman because they are the "property" (for want of a better word) of another "qawwamun", meaning master or ruler.

    Please do not forget that the concept of gender equality is, historically, incredibly new and still held by only a few nations. I do not view the act of insisting on handshakes as non-liberal but as a way of standing up for gender equality and am whole-heartedly in agreement. You only have to have a quick glance at the gender inequality reports (http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_GenderGap_Report_2012.pdf) to see that this is an ideal that needs championing. Especially in Muslim countries, which account for 17 of the 18 worst performing nations in terms of gender inequality.

    Should we force others to change their culture? Probably not. Should we have pride in our own and stand up for values that came after years of campaigning, not to mention the deaths of the suffragettes? Abso-damn-lutely.
    delnon likes this.
  8. slingshotsally

    slingshotsally Star commenter

    I haven't read any police statements nor have I read any research papers on grooming to comment on whether shaking hands started the grooming process that lead to so many young children being abused.
  9. slingshotsally

    slingshotsally Star commenter

    Thank you for explaining this with so much eloquence.
    delnon and cellerdore like this.
  10. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    The handshake is accidental, it's a determination to impose physical will upon children which is telling.
  11. cellerdore

    cellerdore Occasional commenter

    [This comment/section/image has been removed for breaching our Community Guidelines/Terms and conditions]
  12. slingshotsally

    slingshotsally Star commenter

    My understanding of this area is limited to what I have learnt through safe guarding and having a pupil who was doubly incontinent due to abuse.
  13. slingshotsally

    slingshotsally Star commenter

  14. slingshotsally

    slingshotsally Star commenter

    Whoa, easy on the frisk, sherif! Its a shakedown..
  15. cellerdore

    cellerdore Occasional commenter

    Haha, blink and you'd miss it...the quickest draw in the west. :cool: And people wonder why there arn't that many people on the forums...
  16. slingshotsally

    slingshotsally Star commenter

    At least the thread as been read by over 1000 people.
  17. Iftilsi

    Iftilsi New commenter

    There are hundreds of state and church single sex school in this country. No body care about them and when Muslim community demands that Muslim girls should have single sex schools with their own teachers than it is segregation of sexes. What a way to go?
  18. Iftilsi

    Iftilsi New commenter

    Islam is not out-dated that's why it the largest practicing religion and what Muslim do in their prayers: In the name of Allah (GOD), the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful. [All] praise is [due] to Allah (GOD), Lord of the worlds – The Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful, Sovereign of the Day of Recompense. It is You we worship and You we ask for help. Guide us to the straight path – The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favour, not of those who have evoked [Your] anger or of those who are astray.

    Women were not allowed to inherit property before Islam. Many girls were killed shortly after being born (just like in India today). These are a couple of the improvements Islam bought to women. There are many more. Please don't generalise from your ignorance.

    Shari'ah incorporates Islamic practice (prayers, fasting, pilgrimage, charity, shahadah), civil law, and criminal law. To what do you object? Prayer? Civil law (people are entitled to resolve their civil law differences by whatever means they like, in the UK)?

    Sharia Law is legal in the UK for Civil and domestic use. In 1996, Parliament passed the Arbitration Act setting out rules under which parties in a dispute have the right to go to an impartial tribunal to get justice without expensive litigation. Muslims lawyers interpreted this as meaning that sharia courts could act as arbitration panels under the Act, they began in 2007, and their decisions are legally binding under UK law. There are currently about 85 Sharia courts in the UK, mostly attached to mosques. Polygamous marriages are recognised by the UK authorities because there are several known cases where a husband is paid benefits for more than one wife. Under Sharia Law Muslims are allowed to marry more than one wife in the UK......and guess what, they can even claim benefits for the extra wife.

    No one is advocating the establishing of Sharia law in an non Muslim country . But should not Muslims like Jewish people be able to have their own religious weddings and divorces according to their own beliefs. It was Muslims in their own lands who first allowed non Muslims to be able to practice their own laws and this was enshrined in Islamic law nearly 1400 years ago . It was Muslims who gave shelter to the Jews when they were thrown out of Europe during the inquisition and during pogroms. Muslims never burnt people alive or tortured them for their beliefs. Islam is not associated with denial of human rights - actually historically Islam provided documentation for human rights.
    West is still racist, xenophobic and Islamophobia. It is unable to forget and forgive the siege of Vienna in 1683.

    The so called terrorism in Islam is just like a ‘mole-hill’, when compared to a mountain of ‘Western domination & terrorism’.

    The so called “Western” Society has much larger & serious questions to answer than any Islamic Mullah or Islamic Extremist. When I see that Islam is being targeted as evil and barbaric – I cannot help but find what the so called ‘Modern Western Civilization’ has to offer – the worst things packaged in attractive sheets !
  19. Iftilsi

    Iftilsi New commenter

    Britain is not a very tolerant country. With out constant flow of immigrants, British society and economy would bleed to death. There will never be an end to immigration. Muslim community suffers more than others. Muslim community in all western countries needs state funded Muslim schools with Muslim teachers, Masajid, sharia laws, halal food and Muslim cemeteries, with out these, the future generation would be lost in western Jungle.
  20. abacus1982

    abacus1982 Established commenter

    Yes there are single sex schools and there are church schools which people can CHOOSE to go to.It is a child and parents choice to go to these as opposed to insisting that all Muslim girls should go a Muslim girls school, there is a difference.

    And yes Britain is a tolerant country and if it is so horrendous to live here and live in the west then maybe a move is in order.

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