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sexual misconduct

Discussion in 'Behaviour' started by RaymondSoltysek, Oct 13, 2011.

  1. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    To misscake
    How are things going: have you asked your management team for a conflict resolution meeting? Has there been any acknowledgment of the incident from them or from the boy?
    Hope all is well.
  2. afterdark

    afterdark Lead commenter

    Please try to keep your fiction writing off this forum, Ray.

  3. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    from post 11

  4. afterdark

    afterdark Lead commenter

    Your point being?
  5. Hi!
    I have just posted a case study on a restorative conference I recently conducted on my wordpress page (bettinajung.wordpress.com). That dealt with theft from a teacher. It might be interesting to see some real outcomes when discussing a good way to solve this sexual misconduct issue.
  6. This isn't just about what the OP wants though is it. There are some serious allegations here and the needs of the wider school population need to be considered as well.
    I can't help but feel you've lost all sense of justice if you think RJ is a sensible resolution for this sort of behaviour.
    You were recently insisting that SMT be at a primary teachers 'beck and call' on another thread and promoting a far more robust discipline strategy for young children than what you consider to be sensible for a sexually abusive (and older) child here. Perhaps you could explain this inconsistency.

  7. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    This thread is exactly about what the OP wants – she wants a
    resolution conflict conference to give her back a sense of
    self-esteem and control. Any action taken over and above
    would be what the SMT wants; for example, they may wish to take action to restore the system and ethos of the school as a whole. I didn't
    say that what the OP wants is the only action which should be
    taken, but it should be taken for her benefit.

    I've lost all sense of justice if I think that the OP's
    call for a Restorative Justice conference is sensible? [​IMG]

    And I didn’t say that an RJ conference would resolve the
    issue. It rather depends on the outcome of that conference. And
    the outcome of RJ conferences frequently includes what you would call
    "punishment", with the perpetrator accepting that some form
    of "payback" is deserved.

    Effective RJ is by no means less robust than PAD. An
    RJ conference is a difficult and challenging experience for the
    perpetrator and the victim which nevertheless has exceptionally
    positive results. The research from the criminal justice and the education systems is just about incontrovertible.
    I am aware that you will now ask me to cite that evidence, despite it being freely available through your school.

    And my position is not inconsistent: it's different
    solutions for very, very different contexts. That's called
    differentiation. If this child is a sexual predator, I don't
    see how weeks off school is going to address his issues because his
    behaviour needs to be challenged in a much more thorough way: RJ or
    resolution conflict can do that, as the OP clearly understands.
  8. afterdark

    afterdark Lead commenter

    Another disturbing post there Ray. The OP is not the only female in the school is she? What about other females who are less able to defend themselves. It is the school's duty to think of everbody not just what the OP wants.
    I am reminded of the inquirey into Soham/Huntley where mothers of underage girls who had sex with a much younger, though still adult Huntley, didn't want to complain to the police so they complained to the school instead. Doing what the complainant wanted there didn't turn out so great for others did it?
    If this is same criminal justice system that lets repeat offenders off with endless cautions and then rolls hundreds of crimes into one ASBO and cites them all as solves on national statistics then I am not reallt inspired by this claptrap.
    Expecting you, Ray, to produce any facts or evidence to back up your spurious claims would be like expecting the whole world to stop using facebook overnight. I won't be holding my breath.
    I have to say Ray, that you have a rather curious way of not addressing the points put to you. Your posts are more like reading speeches made by a debating society than those of a serious academic.
    For example, what about the wider school population?
    Just one point there Ray, how about it? Think you can manage to address this one point without trying to "play the victim" or go into an agressive rant? I don't, but surprise me.

  9. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    This all amounts to you saying that the
    OP doesn't merit the resolution conflict conference she wants to
    restore her sense of self esteem and control. The rest of the
    school population can be safeguarded in many ways - which I
    acknowledge by saying that the SMT may wish to take further
    action, including police involvement if they wish - but, at the end
    of the day, you would deny a teacher the intervention she requires to
    restore her sense of self worth in order to feel you have scored some points.

    Good for you.

  10. I don't think that dealing with poor behaviour in schools should revolve around what particular individuals want as individual wants are often subject to sudden change. An SMT who turn to punishment to restore a system or improve school ethos is acknowledging that neither existed in the first place.
    You may not have said it but you surely can't expect me to believe you are in favour of a fixed term exclusion, suspension or any similar action given some of your comments.
    It is interesting that your support for the RJ conference are ahead revolves around the fact that 'the OP wants it' and 'it will benefit her'. Would you support a call for permanent exclusion because a teacher 'wanted it' and that it 'would benefit him or her'?
    Actually the research isn't freely available through my school nor is the research proving the benefits of SEAL, group work, collaborative learning, learning styles, child centred learning, target setting, student voice, democratic schooling or creativity. What is freely available to me is a never ending series of training sessions led by 'experts' who allude to this incontrovertible research yet can't reference a single academic source.
    Differentiation? Surely you mean selective appeasement.
    This would be fine if you think the purpose of a school is to reform people who behave like sexual predators.

  11. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    Not wasting any more valuable time on this nonsense.

  12. afterdark

    afterdark Lead commenter

    Translation for the uninitiated, Ray does not have an answer.

  13. Fine but before you go would you be kind enough to provide a reference for just one academic source which concludes that RJ has exceptionally positive results.
  14. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter


  15. Hi! Just been reading this thread. Made me dizzy.
    Well, just to clarify: I have been working in a comp for 20 years as an MFL teacher and I am a trained RJ facilitator. I am not just a consultant telling others what to do, I have written AND delivered programmes on Restorative Justice, as well as faciliating for YOS and schools.
    I have referred to my website where I have posted an RJ I did surrounding theft from a teacher. The outcome was not namby pampy bleedin heart consultant speak (I have received that before as well - particularly from people who have not stood in front of a class for decades). It was robust - and not only led to the re-integration of the year 9 student concerned, but also to the teacher feeling empowered, and I know that because I checked back with her last week (monitoring an outcome is essential!)
    I came to RJ out of desperation - nothing worked with a really dysfuctional class I had. And I had a good repertoire after 18 years of teaching! In the end I took a chance and did a whole class session asking them why they felt they could call my children's mum a b**** if they would kill anyone who spoke to their own mum like that. I have never experienced such silence in a room!
    Anyway, then I came across Safer Saner Schools, the work of Ted Wachtel et al, and particularly Don Nathanson and John Braithwaite (lack of academic rigour? check the reading list on my website for some research!!!) and I was sold. I trained as a facilitator and started using restorative techniques in my classes.
    I then decided that this was what I wanted to do for the second half of my professional life and left to work using RJ. So, please give me some credit and spend a few minutes looking what is out there. Maybe also look at the iirp website (international institute for restorative practices). They post ppts etc from their conferences - and there are "real people" talking about what they do.
  16. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    That comes from watching some of this lot chasing their tails, bettina.

  17. If we ignore the fact that RJ is voluntary and assume the purpose of RJ is to make the victim and perpetrator have a positive experience then I suppose there is some empirical support for the process here.
    However this study did not find that recidivism rates were significantly lower amongst juveniles who took part in a mediation programme and the quasi experiemental research design is considered to be weak.
    Reference: Marek, W (1994). Book Review: Victim meets Offender: The Impact of Restorative Justice and Mediation. Criminal Justice Review 19 (2) 287-289.
    Ray your earlier comments seem to suggest that you consider the purpose of RJ to be punitive, empowering for the victim and rehabilitative. The research article falls well short of proving that RJ is punitive (for the state at least) or rehabilitative. I also wonder how empowered the victim will feel if they are the target should the perpetrator decide to reoffend.
  18. This 'International Institute for Restorative Practices' isn't what I consider to be an unbiased academic source Ray. Was I meant to link to the boring puff piece from the 'Adam Smith Institute' i.e. the free market think tank?

  19. Although this mentions some evidence in support of RJ it is not original research. There is no methodology, raw data nor in depth consideration of the findings.
    You said the research was 'incontrovertible' yet all you have been able to supply so far is a citation for a questionable academic study and two articles from sources that have a bias towards RJ in the first place.

  20. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    In a 30 second google, what do you expect? I told you I wasn't going to waste any more time.
    Yet I still I found a range of stuff to get you started. Chase up the citations mentioned in those articles yourself: do your own CPD.
    Flipping freeloader.

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