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Sexual Harassment - When is enough, enough?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by JosieWhitehead, Nov 3, 2017.

  1. EmanuelShadrack

    EmanuelShadrack Lead commenter

    Would you really do this Jude? Get a prison sentence for possession of a weapon (and more), and a criminal record? You'd be guaranteed to mess up your own life, regardless of whether you messed up the villain's.

    If you wouldn't really do the above, what would you really do?
  2. Fierygirl

    Fierygirl New commenter

    I'm so glad people are coming forward with their stories but much of the commentary around the issue has been very disheartening. The obtuse refusal by some otherwise intelligent people to see the difference between flirting and sexual harassment makes me feel that we haven't really moved on a great deal from the 1970s. If I read one more lamentation that 'men just can't give a woman a compliment anymore,' I think I will scream.

    Some examples of these so called compliments:
    - the man who followed me as I walked home after a night out. He was on a bike, cycling slowly to keep level with me, and coughing to attract my attention. When I looked over he was masturbating.
    - the charming man who put his hand on my bottom in a pub and screamed at me that I was an ugly lesbian when I removed it and told him not to touch me.
    - the man who grabbed my left breast hard as he passed me in the street.
    - the technician who slapped me on the bottom in school when I was an NQT
    - the pizza delivery man who suggested I should have sex with him by holding his index finger and thumb in a circle and poking the finder of his other hand through it repeatedly.
    - The policeman friend of a work mate who grabbed me between the legs when I objected to them putting a **** film on in mixed company.
    - The man who tried to drag my friend away when we got off the bus after an evening at the ice rink when we were 15. Apparently he thought we should be punished for talking about boys we fancied on the bus. I hit him so he threw me against a car.
    - the man who followed me home from the train station one night, then stood outside my flat for an hour.
    - the man who kept coming over to talk and fall over our table while I sat with my friend in a pub. When i asked him to leave us alone he threw a full glass at my head.

    These are just some of the many incidents. I'm not special and most women I know have similar experiences. I am beyond angry that this is still a problem and that there are still people trying to excuse this type of behaviour or equate it with harmless flirting. Some have even suggested that the difference between sexual harassment and flirting is whether a woman finds the man attractive. As for those who question why women haven't reported incidents like these in the past, well you only have to open a copy of trash like the Daily Mail and you have your reason.

    This turned into a mega-rant and I'm not even sorry!
  3. Fierygirl

    Fierygirl New commenter

    This! 100 times.
    Noja, grumpydogwoman and vannie like this.
  4. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    There are times when you astonish me.:confused:
  5. bonxie

    bonxie Established commenter

    People know when they are being abused, they don't just 'feel' it. Abusers know what they are doing isn't something that's likely to be appreciated by the recipient. They just don't care. Their sense of entitlement leads them to think that they can do whatever they want to whoever they want. They also know that they're likely to get away with it. The person being abused has to weigh up the likely consequences of the different ways they could react to their abuser and what the consequences would be if they reported the abuse. Unfortunately, as others have said, sometimes putting up with it is less dangerous than confronting an abuser.
  6. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    I've managed a poem on my phone this time...

    I am not a mango
    i was once in a bar
    At he age of 20
    Peachy skinned but that's not what I was thinking about
    I was thinking about meeting my friends
    And this bloke shuffled up beside me
    Eyeing up my peachy skin
    And my butt.
    Which he squeezed.
    "Fancy a drink darlin?'" he leared.
    But because he'd squeezed my arrrse,
    And because I was thinking about my friends
    And not about have my arrse squeezed
    I said
    "Go **** yourself"
    And he said
    "If I could do that,
    I wouldn't have bothered offering you a drink now, would I?"
    Decades later
    This man remains stalwartly right in his own eyes
    In everything he says and does
    And in my eyes
    Just a complete nothing
    For ever.
    Shouldn't have squeezed my arrrse
    Without asking.
    i am not a mango on a stall.
    What a stupid mistake to make.
    Noja, vannie, InkyP and 3 others like this.
  7. Jude Fawley

    Jude Fawley Lead commenter

    I'd do the above. I've already got a long criminal record so it wouldn't really matter.

    Now Chris Evans is in the frame.
  8. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    How ironic that someone who used a variety of villainous Malcolm McDowell avatars to depict a persona, should challenge an obviously made up persona of a long bygone past for humorous purposes.

    Can you expedite the point you're trying to make as a matter of urgency please, as there's a bird here who I met in the pub who's getting impatient for more of my attention.
  9. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    Have you enjoyed some sort of eureka moment since your vituperation when I last attempted to direct attention to this a week a ago?
  10. EmanuelShadrack

    EmanuelShadrack Lead commenter

    No, I was simply agreeing with (and hence emphasizing) your point that it's often innocent parties that are affected in any reprisals. Wars are full of this sort of thing. It's very hard work identifying who exactly the guilty are, and taking action against only them.

    Just for the record, I've held this belief for a long time. I wasn't in need of your post a week ago to enlighten me.

    If you didn't come out with stuff that I consider worthy of vituperation, I would not have to vituperate :D
    emerald52 likes this.
  11. emerald52

    emerald52 Star commenter

    Thank you @Orkrider2 and @Fierygirl for sharing your heartbreaking examples of harassment. I am angry on your behalf that you have suffered in this way. We have to call out this behaviour, share it with our partners, friends and families detailing the pain caused, getting our unions to improve our workplaces. It is not a witch hunt, we deserve to live our lives unmolested. One small example of a behavioural change is from Mr. E; when he is walking in a quiet street at night and there is a female in front, he crosses to the other side of the road.
    Fierygirl, Noja, Dunteachin and 2 others like this.
  12. InkyP

    InkyP Star commenter

    Re crossing the road. A friend (back in the 80s) discovered that her partner was deliberately walking some distance behind women walking alone to make them feel safer - she put him straight obviously.
  13. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    Some bloke on Radio 4 was just lamenting that this would be the end of workplace romances. OK. Fine.

    How about this? You don't touch people at work and you just talk about ..... work!

    How difficult could that be?

    Imagine if I worked with Her Maj. I can easily envisage us going the whole day with a hug or a kiss or a knee stroke or talking about cuddling later in front of the TV. Because we'd be paid to ..... work. Even when I taught with someone and was in the very early stages of our "romance" we never so much as brushed against each other in passing. It's not appropriate.

    Ask someone out. Fine. But a workplace flirtation IN the workplace? Don't. You might enjoy it but what about other workers? It's embarrassing. It's not work. It's not what you should be doing.

    Do it in your own time. No touching. No winking. No talking about where to put your cold hands for a bit of a warm up. It's easy.
    Noja and emerald52 like this.
  14. elledriver

    elledriver Lead commenter

    You just talk about work? What sort of hell hole do you work in?
    Pomz and sbkrobson like this.
  15. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    So it's got to the point where men shouldn't walk on the same pavement as a woman...

    The mere presence of a man is too much now? This is crazy... simply crazy...
    les25paul, elledriver and lexus300 like this.
  16. ilovesooty

    ilovesooty Lead commenter

    I think it depends on context. In a deserted street in darkness I would certainly cross the road if I sensed someone walking close behind me.
  17. silkywave

    silkywave Senior commenter

    My daughter does not feel safe in any taxi on her own at night anymore.
    emerald52 likes this.
  18. secretsiren

    secretsiren Star commenter

    Watching 'Have I Got News For You' last night, Jo Brand made the very valid point that while putting a hand on someone's knee or rubbing their back in an intimate manner or commenting on the tightness of a skirt is a seemingly small thing, that when it's many many things over time and from different people, it becomes a very worrying picture. In all the examples given above by many of the posters here, one of the incidents can be shrugged off but when you write them down as a whole picture, it becomes much more scary.

    Other than the men in the car who followed me, shouting lewd remarks (this was in the 90s, by the way, well before the advent of free pornography on t'internet), I have had men grab my breasts in a bar because they 'just wanted to see if they were real'; had a whole group of lads rate my appearance (apparently I was 'grim' and ;unf***able') loudly and in front of a whole bus full of people who were laughing - I was so humiliated that I got off the bus a mile and a half before my stop and walked alone through Moss Side in Manchester in the dark; a customer in the shop I worked in called me a 'wh**e' and a c**t' when I told him I was in a relationship and didn't want to go out with him; I've been told to 'smile, love, it may never happen' by total and complete strangers; I once had a very drunk man plop down opposite me in a pub and tell me in detail why he would never have sex with me - from my hair to my belly to my lack of sense of humour (apparently I wasn't smiling enough at his list of things that were wrong with me); the same man and his mates then told my then-boyfriend that I was gross and he should dump me; I've had vodka and coke poured down my t-shirt in a bar so the group in question could see my boobs more clearly...

    It's only when you write it down that you see that this is a prevalent problem. My dad, my husband, all my male friends and - hopefully - my sons don't behave like this towards women and would be completely horrified at anyone who did. But if you start adding up all the men who've acted in this way over the stories on here, then it clearly isn't simply one or two people - it's way too many. I thank my lucky stars every day that the men in my immediate life are good chaps.
  19. delmamerchant

    delmamerchant Established commenter

    People have always been having one night stands.. More so previously than now, since we have more knowledge about STDs and Aids. Not sure why you think it is more acceptable now than it was before.
  20. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    Heterosexual males, they are all up to no good, they are strange, predatorial, should not go out walking alone when women are out walking. Guilty before trial, guilty without trial.

    elledriver likes this.

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