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Sexual Harassment - When is enough, enough?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by JosieWhitehead, Nov 3, 2017.

  1. keyboard2

    keyboard2 Established commenter

    There is no excuse for violence. None at all.

    When my father beat up my mother, I resented my mother because she used to excuse his violence. My disgust was misguided, of course.

    My mother had lots of support from family but wouldn't leave my father as a consequence of finance, shame and children. In the end, she did leave him but not until I was in my early twenties.

    I resent and hate my father for this and haven't seen or spoken to him for several years. Although many years ago, I cannot dissolve the memories of my father's actions and the bleak situation for my mother. They stay with me and will forever.
     
  2. InkyP

    InkyP Star commenter

    I don't know what to say @keyboard2 but I understand why you feel that way.
     
    emerald52 likes this.
  3. frangipani123

    frangipani123 Senior commenter

    It's a very difficult situation. My friend waited until her youngest went to university before leaving her abusive husband. Now she's feeling that their years of witnessing the abuse is impacting on their ability to form relationships. What you're describing is really a form of PTSD.
     
    grumpydogwoman, emerald52 and InkyP like this.
  4. Lalad

    Lalad Senior commenter

    Harassment: Uncovering the Truth?
    On ITV right now.
     
    emerald52 likes this.
  5. JosieWhitehead

    JosieWhitehead Lead commenter

    The programme, I felt, was a good one. Do you think the woman who walked down the road in skin-tight trousers or tights etc might have incurred less sexual harassment if she'd just been wearing what most of us wear? I know that it really shouldn't have made a difference but perhaps it did. I don't know. I guess that our short skirts and high-heeled shoes of my youth might have caused some attention and, yes, it did, but a wolf whistle and a smile wasn't really harassment to our generation. It was a form of appreciation for the fact we looked good and we would probably have just smiled back in reply and that would have been the end of it.
     
  6. keyboard2

    keyboard2 Established commenter

    Perhaps you are right.

    I have had CBT and the intention was to offer guidance to deal with this issue. It did help. The memories never leave you, however. The only way to cope with this is to learn to live with it, which I have.
     
    frangipani123 likes this.
  7. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    I think hatred and resentment are perfectly natural reactions.

    If you witness that sort of marital relationship from afar you look at it with disapproval and disgust. But when you live with that person? I think you have to hate them. They do hateful things.

    And resentment. That's about what might have been and what our society tells us should have been because we regard parents as responsible for bringing up children in a safe and secure home.

    It's part of who you are. It has made me tougher and more resilient than some people I know, I think.
     
  8. JosieWhitehead

    JosieWhitehead Lead commenter

    Is it time, do you think, to make sexual harassment a criminal offence, do you think - and I still think it would be very difficult to know where to draw the line. For example, when working with people you know well, and perhaps are friends with, there could well be a little bit of sexual teasing which is never meant to go beyond that. It would be very difficult to define where to draw the line between harassment and mild flirting *** teasing.
     
  9. elledriver

    elledriver Lead commenter

    Probably not. It's hard to define and very subjective.
     
    JosieWhitehead likes this.
  10. keyboard2

    keyboard2 Established commenter

    It already is isn't it?

    The problem is that the net has been cast too wide, conflating flirting and mild deviance with genuine harassment.
     
  11. JosieWhitehead

    JosieWhitehead Lead commenter

    That's a terrible shame because mild flirting and having a little fun is good for everyone - but there is a line which shouldn't be crossed and I think most people know where it is. Why, even animals know this, and a female will turn round and snap at a male who crosses it at the wrong time, ha ha
     
  12. emerald52

    emerald52 Star commenter

    What may seem like mild flirting to a powerful man can be threatening to a person in a junior position. The comedian now being called out for his behaviour got the permission of his junior staff to watch him mass debate....
     
    InkyP likes this.
  13. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    But that doesn't work for some ducks and sea living mammals.
     
    JosieWhitehead likes this.
  14. ilovesooty

    ilovesooty Lead commenter

    Mild flirting isn't necessarily good for everyone and its definition isn't the same for everybody either. What one person finds acceptable might well be considered intrusive by another.
     
  15. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    I think we ought to have a universally-recognised card system.

    Red card someone.

    This means: speak to me as you would speak to whichever one of these you most respect (your mother or father, the Pope, the Queen, Nelson Mandela, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, God, your boss)
     
  16. coffeekid

    coffeekid Star commenter

    When I got a hysterical dawn phone call from my little sister telling me her boyfriend had pulled a large chunk of hair out of her head during a session of violence, I was distraught. I had had no idea that this was the type of relationship they had. I told her to come immediately to my house (which was in another town and neither of us had a car, doh) but she immediately started being cagey. I 'phoned my older sister (in yet another town, in England) as soon as it was late enough and we both decided to tell our mother. Big mistake. I got a raging call from little sister, furious with me. I suggested that perhaps she was directing her anger at the wrong person and ugh, it was such a mess. Totally effed up. She started backtracking about her sh*t of a boyfriend, saying it wasn't that bad.
    Long story short - her and the nasty rat-like wee Man Baby are no longer together but they have a child so he's still In Her Life. The point of this story... I'm not sure. Something about how things are never straightforward, even in cases of domestic abuse and women (and sometimes men) don't "get out" because it's just not always as basic as that.
    PS. She was not brought up in a way that domestic violence was normalised. Our dad was the kindest, most gentle man ever, who was always very respectful to everyone, not just women.
     
  17. Flere-Imsaho

    Flere-Imsaho Star commenter

    Rubbish.

    This is not complicated and there is no grey area or confusion. If someone asks you stop, to go away or to moderate your language, you do so. We don't say theft shouldn't be a crime because people might get confused and think they can't lend a book or a cup of flour.
     
    emerald52, bonxie, InkyP and 4 others like this.
  18. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    Sad tale @coffeekid

    Except she's out of it now. Pretty well.

    I don't think the oft-held myth that women must have experienced some kind of abuse in childhood or they wouldn't otherwise fall in with abusers is nonsense. Some men and women will go to very great lengths to get themselves into the good books of their "victim". it's a game perhaps. I don't know.
     
  19. Orkrider2

    Orkrider2 Star commenter

    Problem is that some people think that they can excuse their inappropriate behaviour as just flirting.
    If you're flirting with someone and they're not responding by genuinely smiling or flirting back or showing interest in some way, then you're probably not flirting, you're just annoying/upsetting/frightening/harassing them and you need to stop.
     
  20. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

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