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Sexual Harassment - When is enough, enough?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by JosieWhitehead, Nov 3, 2017.

  1. JosieWhitehead

    JosieWhitehead Star commenter

    This subject is coming up now at the start of every news programme and sometimes l hear it said that what was acceptable years ago is not acceptable now. As I come from the generation that grew up as a young woman years ago, I see that things have definitely changed. For example, if you walked down the road and knew you looked good, it wouldn't be surprising if you had a wolf-whistle and many would turn and smile because it wasn't considered sexual harassment. What many young women wouldn't have found acceptable would have been to jump into bed with someone you had only just met - - and well, for many, even before you were married. So what is acceptable and what isn't today and where do you draw the line?
  2. foxtail3

    foxtail3 Star commenter

    When I first started learning to drive at the age of 18, I had a driving instructor, whose methods included putting his hand on my knee or thigh to assist his instruction. I gave up the lessons, but it didn't occur to me to make a complaint about it.

    I think it would be very different now.
    cheesypop likes this.
  3. dumpty

    dumpty Lead commenter

    I still have the view that a lot of what is going on now is 'Hollywood' in that it is the rich and powerful playing to the galleries...their galleries .....and in ways that will not affect or filter down to Joe Public.

    Both men and women make passes at each other (for what a lonely world it will be if that becomes a possible prison sentence) and the line needs to be drawn when the one being chased says they are not interested.

    The pass needs to be done with manners (not as in @foxtail3 's post), the put you down also with manners.

    That's it.
  4. emerald52

    emerald52 Star commenter

    Sexual harassment is unacceptable. Full stop. Yesterday, in a local suburban park at 6pm, a women dog walker in her 30's suffered a attempted rape. He pulled her over and tried to remove her trousers. Luckily the dog became aggressive so he ran off. In the past I moved job to get away from a sex pest boss. My friend had her bra undone from behind by her boss while sitting at her desk in an office. It is everywhere. We have to make a stand and say no more.
  5. lindenlea

    lindenlea Star commenter

    I was subject to an unwanted hand on my bottom a couple of years ago - unbelievable at 64 and very upsetting. Call me a snowflake if you will but it was vile and I won't go anywhere the old git is likely to be. It happened at a function, the chair of the organisation and his deputy came to see me after I complained and took it very seriously. They spoke to him, he was apologetic and has been told he's not welcome at social events in the future. He wasn't banned from the club. I was asked if I wanted him banned and said no, I didn't want him feeling he was a martyr to feminism, I just wanted him shamed.
    It was never acceptable but my generation, among others, put up with it when we were younger.
    Some stupid woman on the radio was saying she was quite flattered by "gropy" men. Jeez!!!

    Crikey @foxtail3 - me too - and the rest.
  6. JosieWhitehead

    JosieWhitehead Star commenter

    Yes, I agree 100% that it is not acceptable and it never was.
  7. secretsiren

    secretsiren Star commenter

    When I was 17, a man and his friend followed me in their car as I walked along the road, calling out 'compliments' (if you can call comments on my chest size and bum a 'compliment' - which I don't) and then stopped the car, got out and started asking for my phone number. I was so uncomfortable that I started laughing out of sheer panic which only encouraged them. I was absolutely and completely terrified but was told later by the mother of the friend whose house I was walking to that I was being melodramatic, that being paid a compliment is a nice thing and I 'must' learn to be nicer to people.

    Subsequently, when I was seriously sexually assaulted, I didn't report it. I assumed - and still do - that I'd be blamed.

    We need to stop assuming that women (or men) are somehow being humourless or snowflakes if they object to having their body shape commented on by a stranger, or made to feel upset or panicky by someone's aggressive sexual behaviour (and that includes wolf whistling or shouting out a car window, in my view). It isn't OK to just grab someone, rub up against them or invade their personal space. It isn't OK to make unasked-for comments to a total stranger (this is different from saying to someone you know that you think their new haircut is nice or that their outfit is flattering - I'm talking a total stranger) or to react aggressively if they're not interested.
  8. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    You'd hope so wouldn't you? I mean you'd hope your driving instructor could talk you through manoeuvres with their dual controls while keeping his or her hands to themselves.
  9. JosieWhitehead

    JosieWhitehead Star commenter

    The things which you are talking about here are way beyond a wolf-whistle meant for fun and the place where I encountered most sexual harassment - yes, and I really do mean awful sexual harassment - is when I worked for the police, as a secretary doing work for the courts. It was terrible and they all thought it was quite the thing to do to the women who worked there. There were 200 policemen with a handful of women working alongside of them. We were heavily outnumbered and perhaps this had something to do with it, but you would not expect this of policemen would you? I'm glad to say that I moved out of there and into teaching and that was the end of that! I was so glad to leave.
  10. silkywave

    silkywave Lead commenter

    I remember being very unhappy as a young woman by the attention I seemed to attract. I felt very vulnerable. Men trying to take advantage.
    It worries me that it happens to girls at school. Boys showing girls no respect.
    Noja, vannie, HelenREMfan and 4 others like this.
  11. Incommunicado

    Incommunicado Occasional commenter

    I was impressed by the wise outlook of a (female) friend who said "You can't blame a man for trying.... but "No" means "No".

    Presupposing that the 'trying' is of a non-intimidatory nature.

    Men and women do have an attraction to each other, you can't get away from that, but respectfulness and consideration for each other remain important issues.
  12. InkyP

    InkyP Star commenter

    Maybe we had the same instructor!
  13. InkyP

    InkyP Star commenter

    When I was doing office temping in the early 80s I remember talking to a woman who had been working as a civilian for the police. I asked her what it was like and she said it was interesting but you had to put up with constant sexual harassment, as if this was just another facet of the job.
  14. Jude Fawley

    Jude Fawley Star commenter

    It's endemic in the political world. Corbyn knew about Kelvin Hopkins past and he still promoted him into his shadow cabinet. True, Corbyn couldn't get anyone of merit to work with him in the shadow cabinet and was scraping the barrel but, to actually overlook what he knew and had been told about Hopkins and still go ahead and put him in the shadow cabinet is a measure of Corbyn's judgement.

    All political parties are mired in this scandal. If they're not fiddling their expenses they're fiddling with their researchers.

    I hope their partners kick them out of house and home and we need to kick them out of parliament.
    nomad, EmanuelShadrack and emerald52 like this.
  15. Norsemaid

    Norsemaid Senior commenter

    Me too! After what I had already been through in my early years , I froze and wondered what I was doing wrong to attract that sort of attention .
    It is never acceptable to override personal boundaries of another person . Never .
  16. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Not all boys. From TV coverage that I watched recently it certainly appears to be many of the older generation who have lack of boundaries concerning physical space and sexual advances. Many young people have much higher standards of behaviour toward others but of course not all.

    They/we learn what they see and what they can get away with, nip everything in the bud and teach self respect and respect for others in the home and community *the latter is sadly lacking, and things could improve. Truth is as we have gauged from posts on child sex offences, they like these being discussed are sadly far more common that we have ever been aware of, we should not be surprised but we should be pro active.

    Men and women should see the difference between being out "on the pull" *yes we have all been there, and being at work where they are being paid to work not flirt or fraternise with each other or "customers" unless they are working in the sex industry and even then it is consensual.

    Edit - Surely if you fancy someone at work there is a process, you might ask them out for a drink or dinner out of hours *not to discuss work, while making it clear that you like them and would like to get to know them better, thereby indicating interest but allowing them to decline and make their position clear, you don't just bundle them into a corner and have good old rummage about in their undergarments... people in authority should be showing a better example than they do... we don't live on the set of a Hollywood film.
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
  17. Jude Fawley

    Jude Fawley Star commenter

    Of course People do get hassled at work and in general conversation. This year alone, I've been asked by several women if I'm asexual and also if I'm gay because I show no interest in all this wriggly and squirmy stuff.

    I've transcended all this stuff and it seems to cause people problems with me.

    If you live alone and do so for decades and don't have kids and don't act in a certain way and possibly appear cold and uninterested it can cause all manner of problems.

    Planet Fawley is a sex-free zone and will always remain so.

    I'm far too intelligent to fall into that trap.
    emerald52 likes this.
  18. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Even single people indulge in solo sex. I love that by not reproducing you feel intellectually superior... there must be more to it than that.
  19. frangipani123

    frangipani123 Lead commenter

    Don't watch Edwina Currie on This Week then - she seems to positively relish the idea of such attention. *shudder*
    emerald52 likes this.
  20. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    Each to their own.
    I rather like the wriggly squirmy stuff
    Or I did before I got a bit past it....
    EmanuelShadrack likes this.

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