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Self isolation evidence?

Discussion in 'Headteachers' started by mms1, Mar 22, 2020.

  1. mms1

    mms1 Occasional commenter

    Hi all,

    Does anyone have specific criteria of what staff need to provide or do to demonstrate they should not be at work? I have a growing number who feel they fall into the category of 'at risk' . I am very happy to support those people with underlying health conditions and will do everything I can for them but surely I should be asking for some evidence of this otherwise I fear I'll have an increasing number putting their hands up for 12 weeks away when we need them most.

    Once again I am not suggesting staff should ignore legitimate health conditions but I need to avoid losing staff unnecessarily to self isolation when they should otherwise be at work.

    Thanks
     
  2. install

    install Star commenter

    I am not an ht, but I work with hts. My thoughts -

    Are they saying they are ‘self isolating’? Being ‘at risk’ can be noted - and a rota would ease that concern in my view. Eg 2 days at school / 3 days working at home.
    It’s a week by week approach. Of course if they are ill they should not come in or if someone in their household is self isolating then it is 14 days.

    I would also say these are uncertain times and flexibility is key. The Govt may change their advice again soon.
     
    Lara mfl 05 likes this.
  3. Jesmond12

    Jesmond12 Star commenter

  4. harsh-but-fair

    harsh-but-fair Star commenter

    Good luck with that
     
    TheoGriff and Flanks like this.
  5. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    What if people are perfectly well, but have a dangerous journey to school on a crowded bus. Are you prepared to take responsibility for making them do that?

    There is health and safety at work legislation. No school is safe, no teacher can be forced to attend. But most who feel able are doing their best. it can only be voluntary.
     
  6. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    Its not me, its the union in a local school, where a head ignored massive numbers of infected students, despite desperate pleas by staff to close the school
     
  7. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide



    Have the police started a formal investigation? Has it even been reported to them? If not you are just scaremongering.

    Legally it sounds like nonsense but we don't know all the facts.
     
  8. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    The head wouldn't close the school despite overwhelming evidence of extreme danger. The corporate manslaughter charge was suggested by the police, I believe, who wanted to force a closure, but had no power to do so
     
  9. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    Staff can get an NHS 111 'Isolation Note' which acts as the equivalent of a GP's Fit Note.

    https://111.nhs.uk/isolation-note/

    They have to speak to NHS 111 first then fill in their details on the online form and download the Isolation Note.

    However there's no verification of anything they tell NHS111. If they say someone at home has the symptoms they automatically get the Isolation Note.

    It only lasts 14 days though. I think they need to do something else to show they are in a vulnerable group needing 12 weeks isolation. Not sure what.
     
    TheoGriff and Lara mfl 05 like this.
  10. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    Why didn't the police arrest him then? Sorry but your story makes no sense. Police come to the school, interview the head, and say there's evidence of the very serious offence of corporate manslaughter, then say there's nothing they can do and wander off?

    Scaremongering.
     
  11. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    no, that is not what happened. The union contacted the police, who have suggested that a charge of corporate manslaughter might be the way forward. The union sent an email to other teachers in the borough, in other schools, describing the circumstances to keep us informed of the situation, our rights, and possible consequences.

    Not scaremongering - just a description of the situation as is.

    That SMT are ****************** who put their staff in danger of losing their lives, and currently have a student and an unrelated parent in intensive care.
     
  12. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    Well someone is talking nonsense about this. A headteacher cannot personally be "facing a possible corporate manslaughter charge". Individuals cannot be prosecuted for the offence of Corporate Manslaughter, whether as an accessory or otherwise, as even the briefest look at the Crown Prosecution Service guidance on the offence would confirm.
     
  13. simonCOAL

    simonCOAL Occasional commenter

    Under current circumstances

    You need to either

    a) provide a link for evidence
    b) keep quiet and stop the “I have heard”
     
  14. MsOnline

    MsOnline Occasional commenter

    He's been rumbled.
     
    Lara mfl 05 likes this.
  15. thin_ice

    thin_ice Occasional commenter

    Been saying this for ages.

    Is s/he also that GreenTrees troll?
     
    Flanks, Lara mfl 05 and MsOnline like this.
  16. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    doesn't make the slightest difference, since you don't know who I am talking about. It would be different if I was providing a name.
     
  17. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    individuals can and do go to prison for corporate manslaughter.
     
  18. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    The Crown Prosecution Service confirms that since the Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Act 2007 came into force they can't. But as you are certain the CPS are wrong why don't you let them know so that they can update their guidance to police?

    upload_2020-3-23_9-10-37.png

    Heads will have to make many difficult decisions during this emergency. Telling them they can go to prison for corporate manslaughter if they get it wrong, despite the law being clear they can't, is scaremongering.
     
  19. lizziescat

    lizziescat Star commenter

    And your legal qualifications are ?
    Or
    The legal qualifications of the person you ‘heard it from’ are?
    Or
    Link
     
  20. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Sheeesh! Even for you @Corvuscorax this is a pretty tall story.
    Even though no one has died? Hmmmm...that's a bit odd.
    And another odd thing, the police do not suggest a 'way forward' to a professional association. Criminal charges are out of the hands of unions and, if the police genuinely believed there was a case, they would take it on. They would not negotiate with unions to do so.
    You posted on Sunday and an 18 year old (with underlying health issues) was declared the youngest uk death on the same day, but died in Coventry and Warwickshire hospital, so not in your borough. Therefore we can safely assume that no school pupil has died from your neighbouring school as no other teenage death has been reported.

    A parent might well be in intensive care. Many parents have died. Are you suggesting corporate manslaughter for all headteachers where there has been a death? Schools were not instructed to close until Monday, so the fact this one was still open last week is hardly noteworthy. Heads have to make very difficult decisions and covid19 isn't actually the greatest risk to many teenagers in London. The head may well have decided the pupils were far safer in school, with this risk, than roaming the streets.

    Any details of a legal case that has not yet started should NEVER have been shared with all and sundry. Whatever we think, that headteacher is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
     

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