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self employed support

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Kandahar, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. Kandahar

    Kandahar Lead commenter

    Will the government pull out the stops or make a hash?
    Jamvic likes this.
  2. Jude Fawley

    Jude Fawley Star commenter

    Make a hash if they attempt to pay we self employed anything over and above universal credit.

    If they do pay over and above universal credit, that offer must be extended to the unemployed.

    Self employed/unemployed. Parity is a must.
    Kandahar likes this.
  3. WB

    WB Senior commenter

    There are probably good reasons why it wouldn't work but could all mortgage, loans, credit card payments etc be postponed for 4 months? The banks would get there money in the end. People's loans would end 4 months later than scheduled.

    Could the government lend the banks money for 4 months so they can carry on then when loans are due to end people finish 4 months later and the banks pay the money back to the government?
  4. Jude Fawley

    Jude Fawley Star commenter

    No, the government aren't bailing out the banks. They're putting the responsibility squarely on our shoulders to pay our bills. That's why they are providing the money to the PAYE people.

    At the end of the day, you'll owe somebody money. Start hammering your bank account or credit card and they'll close it down on you.

    Never think about what's happening now. Constantly project forward at minimum two weeks.

    What's happening here is we are really getting down to the nuts and bolts of the economy.

    Supply/demand. We have a universal system of credit-givers. If you please them they'll give you credit with interest.

    The government is putting the responsibility on the demanders. Not the suppliers. The government is artificially supporting some demanders to keep the suppliers happy. But it's not bailing out the suppliers.

    The suppliers will still close you down if they aren't happy with you.

    It's about responsibility.
    Kandahar likes this.
  5. Abitofeverything

    Abitofeverything Occasional commenter

    I don't understand this at all! We are talking about self employed people who have been earning and paying their taxes, suddenly seeing their income drop off a cliff. Why should PAYE workers receive 80% of their salary when they can't work, and self-employed a tiny fraction of that? What does it have to do with unemployed people, whose income hasn't actually changed in all of this?
  6. Jude Fawley

    Jude Fawley Star commenter

    The unemployed and their potential to improve their income by finding work has changed. Their status has therefore changed.

    The government is telling everyone who can to stay at home. How can you be actively seeking work, a requirement of claiming universal credit, if the government has you in lockdown

    Many self employed are now unemployed. I'm one of those people. I'm still registered as self employed, but I have zero income.

    It would be wrong to supplement a person based on the fact they had employment until recently. The unemployed also had work until recently.

    Hence self employed and unemployed must be treated equally. Everyone in these two groups have the potential to return to work at some point.

    Unfulfilled contracts and promised work is meaningless right now. Decision makers re projects and promised work may not survive this crisis.

    Better to have a level playing field than favour one group above another when both groups are in the same boat.
  7. Jude Fawley

    Jude Fawley Star commenter

    Of course there are many unemployed people who were last employed on the basis of PAYE. I doubt the government is going to give the unemployed 80% of the last wages/salary they had no matter how long ago.

    Maybe some people think those registered as unemployed should be getting out there and finding work that is presently being offered. Why should it be different for those of us who are self employed and unable to work due to government advice?

    We should either all be getting out and finding work or all following the governments advice.

    If you are unable to 'actively seek work if you can' a requirement of claiming universal credit are you still technically unemployed/a jobseeker?
  8. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    It's a mess
  9. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Looks like they pulled out the stops.
    Jamvic likes this.
  10. sparklepig2002

    sparklepig2002 Star commenter

    Have they said how to apply for the money? I missed the announcement.
  11. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Paid directly to the persons account via HMRC data on those who filed last years accounts in January but not paid till sometime in June.
    Jamvic and sparklepig2002 like this.
  12. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    Check HMRC website for the details but what I heard the Chancellor say is that if you have filed tax returns as a self employed person HMRC has your details and they will contact you and tell you how to apply. The HMRC portal for making the application is unlikely to be up and running before 1st June.

    This is for people who are self employed. Supply teachers are unlikely to be self employed. How the for PAYE-employed scheme is going to apply to supply teachers is still opaque.
    Jamvic, Kandahar and needabreak like this.
  13. sparklepig2002

    sparklepig2002 Star commenter

    Thank you, RottW. and Needabreak. My son is self employed.
    Jamvic likes this.
  14. baitranger

    baitranger Established commenter

    I may be wrong, but isn't there a tendency among some self employed persons to minimize their profits when they complete their tax returns? For example, it is not unknown for some individuals to do work that is cash in hand and also not to declare all tips. Perhaps there is some poetic justice in their receiving a percentage of what they declared rather than what they actually received. But that's just me being cynical.
  15. hhhh

    hhhh Lead commenter

    I suppose some unemployed people might have been working until recently, and do want to work. I do appreciate that some people have never worked and feel that they have a right to sit at home all the time and have others pay for them-but that doesn't apply to everyone of course-I've been on benefits myself for a short while, and I know how different the people at the JC can be.
  16. Jude Fawley

    Jude Fawley Star commenter

    We haven't submitted our 2019/2020 accounts yet. I've looked at my 2017, 18, 19 and they average out alright. This year will show a big dip due to vehicle work in the summer. I've got a vehicle valued at £2,000 and this financial year I've spent nearly double on it. Fuel is usually around £2,000 and is has been again. Every penny spent including insurance, tax MOT and repairs come out close on £9,000 this year. I then claim on 80%. Most people claim on a maximum of 60% for vehicles. Some claim on a mileage principle.

    I claim 80% and have always done on the basis I literally just go to work and back and maybe a couple of trips up north each year.

    So I take my thirty-six months. Say 18, 19, 20. I take the average net monthly income and I lop 20% off that.

    I can do the number crunching in five minutes in the morning. I reckon the government will want to include 2019/2020 so I have some wriggle room. I was expecting to pay around £1,200 this year in tax and insurance starting out bringing in over £25,000 and losing a lot on the way until I walk away after HMRC get their cut with around possibly £14,000 net which isn't a great deal.

    I just basically say "I made this and it cost me this to make it so I've this left. Take your tax and insurance and I'll see if I can keep on paying the rent and not go overdrawn too often".
    Jamvic likes this.
  17. Jude Fawley

    Jude Fawley Star commenter

    I could have a session in my office and get my projected government assisted income and projected household outgoings for April-August 2020 down to the last penny, but I'm busy doing my domestic chores so I've just done a roughish sketch of government assisted income. I chose April-August on the basis that the 80% of gross income (pre tax and national insurance) will only kick in in June and will last for three months. I expect to get a June payment, but had hoped to return to work on 6th July so July and August may not happen. Plus the government may back-date payments to boost the universal credit I'll be claiming in the meantime.

    So, I've claimed universal credit and am still in the queue for verification of identity. This might take a few weeks due to the massive queue for verification. The queue stood at 177,111 when I was last queueing.

    So, my route will be claim universal credit, apply for an initial payment prior to the five week processing period and then, when the government 80% of gross (pre tax and national insurance) income comes in, claim that via my HMRC account.

    I took my gross (post expenses) income for 2018, 2019 and 2020 and divided that figure by thirty-six and then took twenty percent off that figure.

    This gives me a government payout of £1,249.60p per calendar month once the scheme kicks in in June 2020.

    In the meantime universal credit will be nothing like that amount. I'll sort those figures once my application is verified. There may then be a back payment to boost that figure up to the £1,249.60p once the government scheme kicks in in June.

    Of course I'll have no running expenses for operating as a sole trader while I languish at home but that doesn't mean some vehicle expense will be on hold. I'll certainly be using less diesel, but car tax, insurance and breakdown cover will still be payable, but there will still be 80% of those that will be tax deductible. I'll have to keep a record of such expenses.
  18. baitranger

    baitranger Established commenter

    The worst case outcome may be that no reliable and safe vaccine is produced and no existing nor new drugs are found to cure Covid19. Eventually the debt will come home to roost, one way or another.
    Even if a vaccine is produced it will probably take at least one year, so is the government going to pay everyone @ 80% of their previous earnings for a whole year-or perhaps longer?
    My view is that eventually those without earnings will be forced onto some version of the dole, which will be at subsistence level, and that there will be food rationing.
    We have to see what happens in China when they relax their strict clampdown / forced isolation of large sections of their population. If there is a resurgence of Covid19 and those previously "cured" are reinfected, we are in for a very rough ride indeed. I sincerely hope that I'm wrong.
  19. Jude Fawley

    Jude Fawley Star commenter

    So, eventually I should receive £1,249.60p per calendar month. My rent is £700.00 per calendar month and council charge is £106.00 per calendar month. I'll keep my direct debits in place for those and utilities, keep a small amount for food and possibly try to get my loan payments of £364.44 per calendar month on hold and hope to get my credit card cleared this month (though doubtful) and just use my current account from here on in.

    I'm just playing around at present and will get all this fine tuned over the next couple of days.

    Then I must strike and apply cuts and, if possible, draw some cash from my meagre funds to keep at home. I doubt that will be more than £200.00 and it will be the last I'll see of hard cash until the country comes out of lockdown.
  20. Jude Fawley

    Jude Fawley Star commenter

    The government seems to be offering an amnesty to all the cowboys and ghosts who operate under the radar, but as Rishi says "from now on you must pay your tax".

    There's some fantastic scenarios out there. My neighbour is on security for Vauxhall Motors at Luton and has to keep working because the factory has a large paintshop fire risk even though the workforce is laid off.

    One of his tasks is to know who is on site at any one time. Often he will be talking to an employee on the phone and, by recognising voices, realise that the person registered for overtime isn't actually the person doing the work. It seems Mr Khan and Mr Ahab have made a deal whereby Mr Ahab gets Mr Khan's payment for overtime so it doesn't affect Mr Khan's payment of family tax credits and then pays Mr Khan the cash re his overtime less a small percentage when they meet up.

    Vauxhall Motors is fully aware of this and allows it to go on. So, my neighbour is checking who is on site and phones Mr Ahab because he's down for overtime and speaks to Mr Khan.

    And my neighbour tells me this is rife throughout Vauxhall Motors at Luton.

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