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Self-employed Daily Supply Rate?

Discussion in 'Supply teaching' started by Typhoon, Mar 9, 2016.

  1. Typhoon

    Typhoon New commenter

    Hi, I have not posted (nor taught!) for a while, but a local school has expressed an interest in possibly booking me for some day-to-day supply. The Head has asked me what my daily supply rate is as this school employ and pay all their teachers directly. When I have done supply work previously, it has always been through agencies or through the LEA so I have no idea what to charge!

    I know that rates can vary from area to area and that the local agency pay their teachers £120 a day (obviously the schools pay more to cover the agency's cut), and when I did supply before (5 or so years ago) I was on MPS 6 and my daily rate through the LEA was around £165 (although this included an element of holiday pay). My dilemma is that I don't want to under-value myself (I have around 14 years of classroom experience) but I want to specify a rate which is competitive with the agency so that the obviously I am the school's first choice for bookings. I'm not fussed about including holiday pay as I have other employment so am just looking for odd supply days as a 'top up'.

    I wondered if any supply teachers out there who are employed directly by schools might be able to give me an indication of their current rates? I am in rural Kent, so not an affluent area, if that makes a difference.
  2. pixiewixiepixie

    pixiewixiepixie Occasional commenter

    It depends, secondary or primary? Shortage subject or general? Day to day or over a period of time and doing all the things a full-time member of staff does?

    I have been doing secondary, Computer Science and Maths (shortage subjects) for three years using my own limited company and work from the South coast to South London but only do contracts lasting a month or more. Currently charging £240 a day but the next one will be higher still - supply and demand rocks. Agencies are typically going to ask no less than £220 a day for your services so if you asked for £220, no one is going to have a heart attack. If you are not secondary or in a shortage subject, then you are competing against many others - I'd go in at £195 and see what happens. Don't sell yourself short, and don't apologise for the amount you are charging to the Head!

    You don't need to start a limited company, but there are pros and cons to having one instead of working as a sole trader - search these forums and Google for comparisons.

    You could also ask to be employed as a staff member on £38K (top of the old teacher scale for a teacher with 14 years experience). The advantage of that is you get to pay into the pension scheme. The disadvantage is that you earn a lot less than working for yourself.
  3. PizzoCalabro

    PizzoCalabro Established commenter

    Go for £165 since you can explain that was your rate - they will have to pay ers NI but will still be cheaper for them than an agency.
    pepper5 likes this.
  4. Typhoon

    Typhoon New commenter

    Do you really think so? I'm just worried that might seem too much or even a bit cheeky! But then I've no idea how much the school pays the agency for a day, I don't want to out-price myself.

    Anyone else have a day rate they charge that they'd be happy to share?
  5. pixiewixiepixie

    pixiewixiepixie Occasional commenter

    Yes, but sadly the moderators are so slow on this forum, it might be a few months before you see my words of wisdom. And TES wonders why these forums are next to dead .....
  6. Pennyforyourthoughts

    Pennyforyourthoughts Occasional commenter

    If the school is under the LEA and not an Academy then they are by law, I believe, supposed to recognise your teaching pay scale.... if it is an Academy they can in effect have their own pay scales that they work from and I suspect is flexible. I would first find out what you should be on for a school in the LEA school system then ask them what their scheme is quoting you are a M6 ....see what they come up with negotiate if you have to but do not undercut yourself even though working direct with a school is like gold dust these days.....we do not need to sound desperately compliant as it will make it hard to moan when you know you have not cut yourself the best deal you could. Remember they are businesses now and negotiate in the same manner if they are not bound by LEA and TPS scales.
  7. Typhoon

    Typhoon New commenter

    Thank you, Pennyforyourthoughts. Well, I told the school (LEA school) that I had been on M6 when I was last teaching a few years ago, which was then around £165 per day. Their reply was that they employed all their teachers directly on a day rate and to get come back to them when I had a confirmed day rate. I was thinking of around £140 per day. Would you say that would be too much? Too little? I want to be competitive with the agency but not undervalue myself.
  8. Pennyforyourthoughts

    Pennyforyourthoughts Occasional commenter

    Legally I believe if it is an LEA run school they have to pay you your rate. I was told when I wanted to negotiate a rate (thinking I will meet a happy medium) that they could not pay me less? Your day rate is TPS M6 (current pay scale pa) you then divide it by195 (the amount of days that is workable in a school year and that is your day rate....which includes any holiday pay. (Perm staff is worked out yearly rate divided by 12 to get a monthly rate ... divide that down to get a daily rate.... but that will not include holiday pay, which the EU say Agency workers have to be paid.... Still with me on this... Now £140 would be good if you were working through an Agency but this is through the LEA ... check with the LEA if the school is required legally to pay you at your graded rate or can they pay you other. Good Luck
  9. Katie777

    Katie777 New commenter

    Ask to be paid to scale, we should all expect it. If they negotiate you down so be it, they should be happy to pay for quality teaching. £166 daily rate for M6, more for London/fringe. I have seen these figures in a number of places: http://www.eriding.net/resources/educators/supply/Pay Scales 2015-2016.pdf
    You will probably have more responsibility than an agency supply in a way as you won't be walking away never to return at the end of the day. That's worth something. Still much cheaper than an agency.
    Phoenixchild likes this.
  10. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    If you are going to be paid on a daily rate you should make sure that it includes pro-rata holiday pay. That means taking the last salary point that you were paid as a contracted teacher and dividing the current annual salary for that pay point by 195.

    MILODOG New commenter

    Hi, I've read with interest the comments about supply teaching through supply agencies v LEA and supply rates. I hope it's ok for me to ask some questions, following on from Typhoon's comments.
    I'm a primary teacher and have already started signing with agencies. I have had little 'luck' so far in the midlands to find an LEA that I can sign up with directly, as they seem to have farmed out their supply to specific 'preferred' agencies, and as such, there isn't an LEA list you can join. Therefore, the agencies then seem to bid you down and I'm being quoted daily rates as low as £110 and no more than £155 (I'm an M6 teacher).

    I'm planning to start supply teaching in September 2016. Just wondered if anyone has any thoughts on 'Umbrella' companies (apparently agencies insist you to use one) and also whether you can become self employed, since the new tax laws this year prevent you from offsetting your mileage and other expenses against your tax?

    Also, IF I sign up with multiple agencies AND LEA's (if I can find one who doesn't farm out their supply to agencies!), will LEA's pay you through an umbrella company too? If they don't, the thought of paying emergency tax, or splitting my tax code several ways leaves me cold! Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
  12. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    Milldog- I would refuse to be paid via an Umbrella company. You end up paying an admin fee to get your pay through the UC, which is actually part of the agency 'employer'.
    You end up paying employer and employee National Insurance.

    The ban on claiming for travel and subsistence is not a ban on self-employed allowable expenses. (The ruse was offsetting the expenses against tax ... thus saving 20% of the amounts concerned in reduced tax, not getting the amounts reimbursed as so many seemed to think). It's the Treasury making the point that those using an UC are not, and never have been, self-employed.

    If they were self employed they'd be setting their own daily rate and would be invoicing the client for their services!

    If employed direct with an LA school, you could be paid on PAYE and would automatically get your annual pay point salary, divided by 195, for each day worked. You couyld also pay into the Teachers' Pension.
    Or, you could be genuinely self-employed, which means paying your own self-employed NI payments, and invoice the school for each day's work. I would then want more than the LA daily rate to cover the missing contribution to the pension.
  13. ultimatedingbat

    ultimatedingbat Established commenter

    Too little. I get M4 and I get £140
    Phoenixchild likes this.
  14. Tolani27

    Tolani27 New commenter

    No!! I
    I work for a school directly and get 190. Please don't sell yourself short. In fact I started an agency and I work through it so sort of the same thing. 185 minimum is what you shouLD be charging the schools.
  15. PizzoCalabro

    PizzoCalabro Established commenter

    if you do work direct for a school, insist on PAYE - is easy for them to put you on the payroll - don't faff around with invoicing. You will tehn also be in TPS. One of my schools automatically put me on TPS for my supply days, the others didn't. Checked with TPS - if you have a DFS number and the school subscribes to TPS which is most of them they must enrol you even though you do ad-hoc supply days and both they and you make contributions. If they don't and TPS find out, that school can be fined and have to pay interest on the unpaid back contributions. I am intending to contact the errant schools when I have a carefully worded email. Will prob not bother with the one I have only done a couple of days in, but the one I was with most of last year should certainly cough up. I will also have to pay back contributions, but am happy to do that.
    Lara mfl 05 likes this.
  16. Phoenixchild

    Phoenixchild Occasional commenter

    For long term I expect to be paid to scale from the start otherwise I won't take the job.xx
    pepper5 likes this.

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