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Seemingly dense NQT looking for info on pensions, strikes etc

Discussion in 'Pay and conditions' started by Piranha, Jul 5, 2011.

  1. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    Are you in a union? If so, they are likely to have sent you some details. If not, I suggest you should think about joining one.
  2. Crowbob

    Crowbob Lead commenter

    There are lots of blogs and neutral(ish) newspaper reports out there that explain things quite clearly.

  3. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    Can I just say that I love you for your 'seemingly dense NQT...' thread title - bless you!
  4. lol, thanks Middlemarch. I don't think I really am all that dense, I mean, someone obviously thought I was fit to teach. It's just that I've never been very good at understanding financial matters or political matters and I think this falls into both categories lol.

    So, does anyone have any arguments for or against the proposed govt actions?
  5. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    Good to see someone with a nice, self-deprecating sense of humour.
    When I was a young teacher I never even thought about pensions - why would I? You're forced to, however, by what's happening.
    The teachers' pension was changed for new entrants in 2007, making it a less good deal than those of us who started earlier got, but still a good pension. The new government claimed first of all that our pension 'wasn't affordable'; they've changed their tune now and say it's 'not fair' for public sector workers to get better pensions than many private sector workers. The fairness argument seems to evaporate in other issues, however, for example - it was declared that the bankers must still receive their bonuses, even after massive amounts of public funds had been paid to rectify their errors and keep the banks afloat, because 'it's in their conditions of service and wouldn't be fair not to pay them'. Our argument as teachers, therefore, would be that we began our careers paying into a pension on the understanding that there would be specific benefits paid out at specific times and it would not be 'fair' to change that now.
    The changes mooted - and we're still not sure exactly what they will be, because they will be 'based on' (but might not be identical to) the Hutton report - involve making it so that you pay more in per month, have to work longer (until you're 68) and get quite a bit less than you were previously promised.
    Does that make sense to you?
  6. As I understand it, the International Monetary Fund said that our pensions are self-sustaining - meaning the money we put in pays for the money we get out. It's not a matter of the country not being able to afford our pensions because it has nothing to do with tax payers.
    It seems more about the government sticking their fists into what ever pot of money they can see and trawling the cash out to support the economy. They say it isn't fair on private sector - but it was the private sector that create the problem.
    Put it this way; As a teacher, I will never get a bonus - in the Private sector I would. As a teacher on MPS, I am earning less than comparable private sector qualified workers. I do not get paid for lunch hours as I would in Private. I can work longer hours than office workers on 9-5. I do not get the holiday time as perceived by the private sector as I am working. I do not get paid for the holiday period as private sector does. I will never be allowed to take a holiday in the time that I am paid for as private sector workers do - forcing me to holday during the inflated periods.
    What priviledge is left for teachers? Well a nice pension would be a start.
    However, I am in the same situation as you; not very experienced and it's all abit over my head. The above is as I understand it to be in my limited capacties.
  7. Crowbob

    Crowbob Lead commenter

    The money you pay in does not get put in a box marked "bluechair84". You pay towards the cost of current pensioners. What you pay in is supplemented by a large employer contribution.
    Where does the employer contribution come from?
    Not necessarily. Plenty of private sector workers do not get bonuses. Also, many do not have a pay scale that allows for automatic increments.
    Who are those comparable workers? Many graduate schemes pay a rate lower than teaching wages.
    Your blanket assumptions/generalisations about the private sector are staggering. Many private sector workers have similar lunch arrangement to teachers.
    You have moved from "comparable" workers to office workers. Are you saying office workers are the comparable people you talk about earlier?
    There are plenty of "comparable" workers who work equally long hours. For example, a law graduate on Training Contract.
    The minimum holiday entitlement is 5.6 weeks (28 days for a 5 day working pattern). If a teacher does not choose to take at least 28 days during the 13 weeks worth of school holidays they are either workaholic or inefficient. It would be their choice to work the entire holidays.
    If you are suggesting that you work all day every day during the holiday periods, you are crazy. Do you get paid for that time? Yes. Just because it isn't separated on your wage slip, doesn't mean you aren't getting holiday pay.
    Fair point, I concede.
  8. I knew if i typed long enough, the monkey would say something intelligible [​IMG]
    Thanks for the response, comments duly noted!
  9. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    For me the point is about the contract I made with the government about my pension, which they are now proposing to change radically. If I'd known this years ago, I could have made suitable additional arrangements to ensure I could retire at the time I wanted, with the pension I was expecting.
  10. strawbs

    strawbs Established commenter

    exactly my thoughts. And didn't Gove tell one of the unions at conference last year that (if elected), he wanted to reform pensions, but wouldn't change those for existing teachers as it would "break the contract" they had signed up for.
  11. I haven't started paying into a teachers pension yet though. So would it be fair of them to say "well those teachers who have been working x amount of years get their original contract but new teachers get peanuts"

    I'd quite like a nice pension too please Mr Gove.
  12. Crowbob

    Crowbob Lead commenter

    Yes, it would be fair april. You would know the conditions/benefits of membership of the scheme at the time you join.
    I agree with MM that it is unfair to change the deal so radically for those already on the scheme.
  13. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    Yes he did - it's a matter of record, so he can't weasel out of it.
    That was before the election, of course... I suppose he couldn't risk saying 'Actually teachers, we plan to suck your pensions dry, even if you've been paying into it for over 30 years', as it would guarantee no serving teacher could possibly have voted Tory.
  14. Isn't this the same reason the Gov has said it can't cancel bonuses for Bankers as they are contracted to receive them?
  15. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    Strange, isn't it? One rule for them...

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