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SCITT/GTP - any good?

Discussion in 'Teaching abroad' started by avatar33, Apr 6, 2010.

  1. I'm thinking of taking a GTP or SCITT with the eventual aim of working abroad. My question is whether international schools generally recognise these as being as good as a PGCE? If anybody has experience of this I'd be very grateful.
    I'd prefer to do a PGCE, but having worked abroad recently I'd be treated as an international student and so have to pay 10K or more in fees, which isn't too appealing.
    My other option is a distance learning MEd, but I'm guessing that would come below GTP/SCITT in the pecking order.
    Anyway, thanks in advance for any advice and apologies for so many acronyms.

  2. the MEd would not qualify you to teach.....and most excellent schools abroad would not recognise the GTP....Australia for instance does not. PGCE is the way to go, if you are UK resident now and have a passport you won't pay overseas fees on it. - use your parents address.
  3. moscowbore

    moscowbore Star commenter

    "... most excellent schools abroad would not recognise the GTP" - What rubbish!

    Australia and NZ do not recognise the GTP if you are applying to teach in state schools. Private schools can hire anybody they like.

    I am a GTP and I have had no trouble finding overseas employment. Many of my colleagues are also GTP'ers.
  4. Having a British passport makes no difference to paying UK fees being a UK resident for the last 3 years does. Using your parents' address may not help.
  5. yasimum

    yasimum New commenter

    I'm afraid it is not 'rubbish'. To work in schools in Australia, you have to now be registered and eventually accredited with a state institute of teachers (all called different things).
    This is an independent accreditation (and money making) organisation. They do not accept the GTP and therefore you can not register or become accredited. I don't know any school, certainly not public or any private school worth its salt, who will allow you to teach if you are not accredited with, in my case NSW, NSWIT.
  6. A PGCE is your bet if you're going overseas. Some places might recognise GTP, but others don't. Sometimes the COUNTRY you're going to won't recognise it, even if the school is more than happy to hire you.
  7. moscowbore

    moscowbore Star commenter

    Many excellent schools overseas recognise and are happy with the GTP.
    Australia doesnt. So I wont go teach there.
  8. Most schools abroad ask for QTS - that means that GTP or SCITT is acceptable.
    'most excellent schools abroad would not recognise the GTP....Australia for instance does not. PGCE is the way to go' is simply wrong. I know of some excellent schools that DO accept the GTP, although not in Australia. Australia is a different kettle of fish.
    'Some places might recognise GTP, but others don't. Sometimes the COUNTRY you're going to won't recognise it, even if the school is more than happy to hire you.' As far as I am aware, only Australia and New Zealand require the PGCE course. This is their reciprocal agreement with the British govenment that requires all kinds of paperwork for THIER teachers to work in UK.
    If you know of specific countries that do not accept GTP, then please state them. Some schools may not want to acceptthe GTP as their management knows little if anything about it having been out of the UK for so long. Most of the BEST teachers I know did not travel the traditional route into education.
  9. tyler durden

    tyler durden New commenter

    My wife trained via the GTP route. We were offered plenty of interviews from fairly prestigious schools around the world (not Oz). None of them had any problem with the route she took into teaching.
  10. yasimum

    yasimum New commenter

    Of course, but your original post did read as though private schools here will accept the GTP and of course they won't. So, I was merely clarifying that statement, not trying to get up your nose or anyhing.
    I think a lot of this highly emotional discussion about this topic is mainly due to people not realising the restrictions and then finding out when it is too late. Beeter to know right from the get go even if it does mean people shooting the poor, weary messenger.
  11. Thanks for all the advice. Seems that GTP/SCITT may not open every door, but it would open enough. I assumed that as they result in QTS that would be sufficient for most.
    Re the PGCE funding, I've had friends look into this who have worked abroad and then wanted to return to the UK, and it's hard to find out about funding before you accept the placement; they effectively ask you to come back and then talk about how much it'll cost you! Seems in most cases they do class you as an international student.
    The alternative is to do an online PGCE with the likes of Sunderland uni. I've heard sceptics dismiss this as not being a genuine PGCE (the P stands for professional, not postgrad, for a start) but I also know people who've landed great jobs on the back of it. Sunderland also offers an MA in international education for the same price.
    As Yasimum says, it's a big choice and you don't want to take the wrong path.
    Decisions, decisions...
  12. In the UAE the visa requirement for teachers are a teaching qualification from a university which has to be attested plus two years teaching experience. Maybe you can get a teaching qualification awarded from a university after you compelte GTP, maybe it's awarded by your LEA. I can't say I'm sure whether or not they accept GTP there.

    This isn't a debate about the value of GTP/SCITT vs PGCE or BEd. I'm just saying that some schools, some heads and some countries simply don't like it because they don't have experience of it and find it difficult to quantify.

    You'd be surprised at how many heads have been overseas for so long they develop very funny ideas about recruitment. One head even dared question a teacher with a BEd and 30 years exp because he thought a BA+ PGCE was better in his opinion! Ridiculous, I know, but don't let anyone lead you to think that the overseas teaching market is anything other than highly competitive these days.
  13. moscowbore

    moscowbore Star commenter

    dear yasimum,
    I was talking about private schools in general, not specific to Oz. I have huge respect for your contributions and I did not intend to "sound" annoyed.

    I was merely pointing out that many teachers all over the world teach in schools which are happy with QTS whatever route. Oz and NZ are, to my knowledge, the only places which turn their elitist noses up at a qualification which in many peoples' views is better than a pgce. Excellent teachers go to Oz and NZ and are not employed in teaching through institutionalised snobbery. A PGCE, like any qualifiation, is no guarantee that the person is a good teacher.
  14. But lack of a university based teaching qualification guarantees you can't be an effective teacher, well, according to one person on this thread it does.
  15. yasimum

    yasimum New commenter

    Oh Clovis you really are the most obtuse person I have ever come across. As I have said SO many times, that is not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that think carefully about where you want to teach as not all places accept a non-university based qualification.
    I have also said that the reason for this is manifold. One of the reasons is that to be seen as a profession, with the sort of salary we want to achieve, there must be a university degree in education and the unions would baulk at anything else. I do happen to agree with their REASONING. That is not to say I don't think that someone who qualifies through the GTP route cannot be an effective teacher.
    If you would like to read another thread that has been on here recently about what makes a great teacher, I have stated that after six years of supervising trainee teachers, the 'it' factor is something that cannot be taught.
    Now if you can't finally get that through your head then heaven help your poor bloody students.

    No worries, I just didn't want to offend but needed to make the clarification. I can't think of anything worse than finishing a route of qualification and then finding out it isn't going to get you where you want to go. I'm sure there are excellent schools with excellent teachers who have qualified via GTP and I wish all of you however you qualified all the best.
  16. moscowbore

    moscowbore Star commenter

    Dear yasimum,
    It is not possible to get QTS unless you have a degree. The argument about whether you need a teaching degree to be a good teacher is for another place. I understand the attempt to "professionalise" teaching but I think it is plainly stupid to turn away good teachers because they dont have a particular piece of paper.
  17. yasimum

    yasimum New commenter

    Yes I realise that you cannot get QTS (UK thing) without a degree in some discipline but in Australia you do need degree in education. As we all know, getting accepted, registered or whatever is a matter of supply and demand.
    The GTP route came about due to the crisis of supply that was prevalent in the UK in the 80's. There has not been that sort of crisis in Australia since the 60's and I can't see it happening again in the near future.
    Whether it is stupid or not matters little to a bureaucracy or a union. The bureaucracy can afford to be choosy and the union is strong enough to protects its members working conditions and remuneration.
    Yes, we could argue all day long about the union's involvement but I am a strong supporter. Just one little example of why is this scenario. My friend's daughter lives and teaches in North Carolina. NC is not a unionised state in regards to teaching. I was talking on the phone to my friend and asked her how long jen had off school on mat leave. Her reply? No mat leave, can only take the five weeks sick leave she has accumulated, then if she wants to be off any longer she hs to partly fund the employment of a casual to the tune of $50 per day.
    So yes, I will support my union in its quest to both protect our professional status and to jealousy protect working conditions for its workers. Don't want to go back to the bad old days do we? Because if anyone can do it (teach) then we won't be surprised if the powers that be will let ANYONE do it if they can save a buck.

  18. Hi,
    very interesting discussion. Has anyone heard about the PGCEi in Nottingham. I have QTS via the (early days) of GTP. I was wondering whether the PGCEi would make up for not having done the PGCE. Mind you, I have also read the expression "prior service" in the Australian qualification recognition pages...
    I am looking forward reading your thoughts!
    PS. The "P" stands for post-graduate.
  19. Mainwaring

    Mainwaring Lead commenter

    There's a chap called JCB Hollenweger posting on Opinion who runs him a close second. Funnily enough he's another of those blokes who puts words into other people's mouths so he can employ his devastating wit (is that exactly the word I'm looking for?) to satirize what they haven't said.
  20. Does it? I thought it stood for 'Post'. So PGCE stands for Post Graduate Graduate Certificate of Education. Slightly odd sounding...hardly rolls off the tongue!
    It's the 'i' that I don't get. What does the 'i' stand for?

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