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schools want to have their cake AND eat it!

Discussion in 'Supply teaching' started by anon1369, Feb 15, 2011.

  1. I have read a post over on the CS forum which has quite frankly really annoyed me!
    It is a post from a primary teacher who basically wants to know if its right that the class teacher should be expected to *plan* a lesson AND supply the resources for the teacher in their absence.
    It is wrong on so many levels, firstly the school often uses one of their TAs as a CS but the teacher cannot believe that she has to write a proper plan and provide all the resources. So the school are looking for a CS who will <u>plan and teach</u> the class providing all their own resources. The teacher makes it clear that the school are looking for someone to carry out the proper role of a teacher but only pay them CS rates. The teacher also requires the CS to mark the childrens work!
    I am truly both shocked and horrified at the ignorance displayed. I am not one for slagging other people off but apparently numerous members of staff in the school are of the same opinion and cant for the life of them understand why a CS shouldn't do all the duties of a teacher.
    As a supply teacher who cannot get work because of the widespread use of CS I am furious [​IMG]
  2. historygrump

    historygrump Lead commenter Forum guide

    Good luck to the ignorant teachers, because once they appoint a CS and once the are established the HT will say why do we need the class teachers for KS 1, we could replace them with more CS, it saves money. Then when that succeeds it will be why do we extend the use of CS to KS 2. That is the future of education system in England, a mid victorian one with no safegurards or training required to become a teacher.
  3. Post a comment and vote on the 38 DEGREES website. get this most important issue out in the public domain:
    Totally unacceptable, corrupted and brainwashed thinking about the employment of unqualified people as cover "teachers"!
    Never, ever acceptable!
    Keep voting and get an avalanche of protest from the public since dimwit "colleagues" have already been hoodwinked![​IMG]

  4. Even more annoying is being sent along on Supply to a school, and told that you will be teaching maths or whatever. At the end of the day, you are suddenly told that because work had been set, you were not teaching but acting as a cover supervisor and offered pay accordingly.
    Once or twice, an agency has rung me up, offering me cover supervisor work on the proviso that they will ahev to check with the school that they will accpet a QT as a CS. On all occassions, the agency rang me back to say that the school had declined.

  5. vou


    What!!! Am I hearing this right!! You get called in to do a day's supply as a TEACHER but because the work is set you suddenly become a CS. What planet are these people on!! As for expecting a TA to plan lessons and mark work - that's news to me!!! Need a lie down and a quiet cup of tea I think!!!
  6. Lara mfl 05

    Lara mfl 05 Star commenter

    Me too!
  7. This is exploitation in the extreme.
  8. Mr Gove! Stop all the dimwit duplicitous talk and abolish the cover supervisor role forthwith!
    Go on!
    Just do it and fine HTs for employing unqualified people as cover "teachers" NOW!
  9. Moony

    Moony Lead commenter

    So setting cover for a planned absence means that the person doesn't get paid as a teacher?? RUBBISH!!! I'm currently long term supply at the moment and aside from a cold last week and not having everything i need to set propper cover to hand at home i've always planned more than enough work to fill the lesson, irrispective of the hope that its a teacher covering the lesson or a CS. And on day to day unless i've been given time to plan and resource a lesson then i expect work to have been set and resources provided and it's then down to me to use my general skills as a teacher to help the kids with the work regardless of the subject.

    Yes i know i'm preaching to the converted but I'm just shocked by the idea of being bumped down to CS rates because work was set....work should always be set either by the teacher of the group or another teacher.
  10. Getting bumped down to CS, when I had been told that I was going to be teaching has only happened to me once, but given that I have only had two days in the last nine months, it has niggled, as you can imagine. When I made a fuss at the school, they must have complained to the agency, who duly complained to me. The agency manager tried to claim that just because I was told I would be 'teaching' maths, I should not have infered from this that I was expected to act as a teacher, or expect to be paid as such. Since, according to the manager, the school were 'not satisfied', the agency would not pay anything. This is a mug's game.
  11. Albertdog I am not sure that this is legal. I would ask them where it says in their terms and conditions that they are able to withhold payment. Good god if this were possible we could all end up doing work and then the agency pocketing the cash on some spurious grounds. Sound like a!*!H*!$s to me and I wouldn't consider working for them again.
    Threaten with small claims court.
  12. historygrump

    historygrump Lead commenter Forum guide

    This is a clear case of deceit, in that you agreed to go to the school as a teacher, the school employed at the start of the day as a teacher, so they should pay you as a teacher. The school can change your status once you commence the job. If the school was not satisfied with you work then they should either inform the agency that they do not want you back or ask you to leave at some point in the day. The fact that they used you for a full day and then claim they were not satisfied, so they are not paying. Is a clear case of deceit, in that they obtained your services under false pretencies, they should be reported to the police, the unions and your MP.
  13. vou


    I agree - this doesn't sound legal to me!! If the school was not happy they should have at least paid you for that day and not had you back. As for this nonsense of being told you would be teaching maths and not infering that you would be paid as a teacher - this manager is pulling a fast one!! I would get some legal advice or change agency!! Are you part of the NUT? Maybe they can advise you on this???
  14. Pennyforyourthoughts

    Pennyforyourthoughts Occasional commenter

    I have to say I must be soooooooooooooo lucky........
    I have a great agency who always confirm by Email where I am going and the rate of pay. I have had at least 3/4 days a week since Christmas and I have never been asked to do Cover Supervisor work or had my pay clipped in any way. Yes it could be more as I am sure they get a good cut but in this climate I am just happy to be having regular work and at good schools. Will it last? who knows? With new policies being implemented in April by the Government..... I think even teachers and admin staff are waiting for the dreaded words, redundancies, pay freeze even cut hours.
    I would certainly check whether a school or agency can with hold your pay for the day. I suggest you speak to your union and get advice. Thats what they are there for.

  15. Thank you for all the good advice. The school were not 'unsatisfied' with my work; they complained to the agency that I had made a fuss at the school when I was told that I had not been teaching, as work had been set, but was only acting as a cover supervisor.
  16. mereside

    mereside New commenter

    I completely fail to see what this school is on about. Of course work has to be set when you first go into a school as a supply. How on earth could anyone know what the curriculum was and what level the pupils were at. In any event all teachers have to follow their school's curriculum and schemes of work. Thus to some extent all work has been set by the school. No doubt soon this will be HTs argument for employing armies of unqualified CS with just a HOD setting all the work in each department.
  17. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    I've been into school as a primary teacher and work has been set. However, even if work has been set, I would expect to be asking a range of questions and developing the children's understanding as part of the work set.If the work was on fractions, then I would spend 20 minutes with the class working on fractions, probing their understanding and developing their skills. I would also have a plenary following up the set work.

    If I were to merely hand out worksheets or say do this exercise in this book, then I am a cover supervisor. When I ask questions, develop their learning and interact with the children about their learning, then I am acting as a teacher and expect to get paid and treated accordingly.

  18. vou


    Again like you I don't see the point - as a primary supply teacher myself all work is set. There are time when I go in and I must set appropriate work or get help from other year teachers but you are still teaching - explaining work, introducing methods, ideas, keeping children on task, going through plenaries, etc. Judging the level of abilities, attainment and understanding of class and balancing the lesson accordingly. You can't go in cold and be expected to set work without knowing class, abilities, levels, etc.
  19. nemo.

    nemo. Occasional commenter

    Use of TAs as cover supervisor. Seems to be common now - it is at my school - but this means that children who need extra support don't get it. What is the point of statementing kids if they lose their support most of the time?

    TAs are cheap, not paid in hols and in my school paid outer London rates despite teachers getting inner London rates. Their union is weaker basically and thy are treated like slave labour with 100% timetables. Getting them to plan lessons when it isn't in their job profiles - and they haven't been trained to do it - is attrocious.

    On the other hand for long term supply properly qualified teacher should be used. However when I was training I saw short term supply teachers sit on their derrieres and not care a hoot. Kids treat them bad and to be honest who wants that? Ok some mothers or fathers who were careers who want to return to teaching yes, some semi retired teachers yes - but NQTs? What a waste for both NQT and kids. And an OTT? The majority I have worked with are good/outstanding teachers but they get the perm jobs. We all know of "can't teach" (in uk at least) OTTs or NQT simply due to inexperience and or classroom management issues. They seem to have ended ip in supply in the past. A TA the kids know and respect may get more learning done especially with kids trained to learn independently.

    However I am sure heads only see the cost of supply teachers! On that point I knew an American agency that charged 300 quid andnpaid 120 quid. The same in the NHS with nurses. The agencies sit by anphone and earn supernormL profits from hardly doing anything. Real capitalistic excessive exploitation and supported by a so called pro competition business! Local authorities should have supply teachers and organise supply direct.

    Anyway just my 2 cents worth!
  20. Whenever I work, the rate of pay is agreed before the assignment is accepted. That is a legally binding contract, even if only verbal, so nobody should be downgraded after taking on a teacher's position.
    Last week, I had a late call asking me to go to one of my regular schools as a CS. I usually go as a teacher and said "no". Some time later, the agency rang back and begged me to do it as a favour to them as they were "struggling". I did it because otherwise I'd have been sitting at home earning nothing, had little better to do and felt it's never a bad idea to get in the good books of the agency.
    I walked into my first class, was shown the powerpoint on the whiteboard and told to teach the Year 7 English class the lesson it contained! Later in the day I was required to supervise the AT.
    I mentioned all this to the agency at the end of the day and they were apparently shocked. They thanked me profusely for the feedback and said they'd be taking it up with the school, who they said were taking the mickey. No arguments there! If teachers are downgraded to CS pay when they don't teach, can I expect to be paid as a teacher for that day? I'm not holding my breath.
    The next day, I received a group text at some time after 9am from the agency. They were "struggling" to fill an urgent booking at another school. I put two and two together and thought it must be a CS day as if it was teaching, it would have been snapped up. I didn't respond. I have to say, I'm encouraged that they are having such trouble finding supply CSs. Long may that continue!

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