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School days to get longer

Discussion in 'Education news' started by phlogiston, Mar 16, 2016.

  1. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    1. I haven't changed my mind.

    2. Teachers in state schools (are you one?) know what the phrase 'the thin end of the wedge' means...to their cost.

    3. I'm retired. But I did see - for example - schools starting to get involved with holiday/Saturday revision sessions just because their rivals did. I doubt it would be different with these after school activities.

    You are keen on us all 'reading the white paper' - does it say, anywhere, 'provision will be either by specialists employed specifically to run these sessions, or by teachers paid extra to do so- no teacher will be expected to or required to run these sessions' or similar? If it did we wouldn't be having this debate.
    delnon likes this.
  2. delnon

    delnon Lead commenter

    ISI is OFTWIT?
  3. blazer

    blazer Star commenter

    OFSTED used to inspect after school clubs. When they did we always suspended the clubs during their visit (It was a week in those days). Inspect what I am paid for by all means but you do not have the right to judge what I do unpaid.
    delnon and FrankWolley like this.
  4. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Nevertheless, the white paper indicates that funding for an extended day is being introduced so that secondary schools who apply for it can include a wider range of activities, such as sport, arts and debating. In other words, it is for those schools that currently offer few, if any, such experiences. Do you not think that offering such experiences helps pupils, or are you one of those who thinks that exam results are the be all and end all of education?
  5. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    Your technique is to ignore questions & examples that do not accord with your point of view, and simply ask more questions, a number of which have an implied criticism of teachers in state schools. Well I'm not playing - want answers? Answer the questions I posed first.

    Or I shall assume that you are, essentially, no more than a troll.
    delnon likes this.
  6. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Are you aware of any that were NOT voluntary and remunerated? Those around here most certainly are (and quite well paid at that).

    No, the only detail is that there will be funding and that it is for a wider range of activities, such as sport, arts and debating.

    Of course, if the Sugar Tax does its stuff and kids stop buying sugary drinks, there'll be no money and the whole idea will never get off the ground!
  7. delnon

    delnon Lead commenter

    Let's try this again.
    A simple 'yes' or 'no' will suffice.
  8. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    Yes - not voluntary in the sense that it was made clear that you had little or no future in the school if you didn't do it. An offer you couldn't refuse. Well remunerated? Hardly. Sometimes not even travelling expenses.
    delnon likes this.
  9. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Correct me if I am wrong, but the only question of yours that I have not answered is your desire to know if I am a teacher in a state school.

    Not that it is any business of yours, but - like you - I am retired.

    Do let me know if you have further questions you would like answered.
  10. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    The Independent Schools Inspectorate is regulated by Ofsted but it is not Ofsted. It is independent :)
  11. install

    install Star commenter

    [QUOTE="florian gassmann, post: 11623692, member: Why do you have such a low opinion of their efforts?[/QUOTE]

    Erm ...I do after school activities myself BUT you have implied that thousands of students will be at fast food outlets otherwise....

    Teachers are not Childminders.

    On that note I think Childminders earn more....LOL
    delnon likes this.
  12. delnon

    delnon Lead commenter

    Typically, that was not a 'yes' or 'no' but it will do. Thank you.
    State education had a similar arrangement. There were County Advisers - people who knew all about the schools in their county, and were pretty canny when it came to what worked and what did not. They were so useful that they had to be abolished.
    There were - and are - HMIs, who were also knowledgeable. I still recall an encounter with one, when within a very short time it became apparent that he knew more about being a HoD than I did. I learnt a great deal from that.

    OFTWIT, however, had a totally different premise, which was stated quite clearly in an early Chris Woodhead declaration: "My job is to make teachers howl." Which indeed he did. The first OFTWIT inspectors I met clearly knew SFA about teaching or learning, but they had the power to destroy schools and teachers. Anything I could do to limit their depradations had to be considered.

    Heaven forbid that OFTWIT should be intended to help state school pupils succeed!

    Or to put it another way: treat me well, I'll volunteer. Beat me up - I'm out of here.
    FrankWolley likes this.
  13. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Indeed so, but it has not been stated anywhere that teachers will be involved in this new scheme. Even Frank thought that the extended hour would be run by 'bought in' staff (e.g.sports coaches). I agree, I think that music hubs are likely to want to participate, regional theatre staff may want involvement, and its possible that TAs and voluntary sector employees might be used for things such as homework clubs.
  14. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    And Frank also said he didn't trust some HTs not to decide to emulate those schools who do get the money (only a small minority, remember) by (ab)using his/her own staff and forcing them to run such sessions. There are plenty of precedents...after all, it' all for the good of the kids' isn't it... :eek:
    delnon likes this.
  15. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Those'll be the HTs who force their teaching staff into cooking lunch for the kids, maintaining the central heating, cleaning the lavatories. mowing the playing fields, fixing the roof, and so forth.
  16. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    Don't be silly.

    You clearly know very little about conditions in many state secondary schools.
  17. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Perhaps so, but I know a purveyor of scare stories when I see one, Frank.
  18. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    The following was posted a few minutes ago by another poster on another, different but allied, topic (I hope he/she won't mind me quoting them!):

    "Or there's another HT abusing the "and any other reasonable duties as directed by the Head" part of the contract. I was told that failure to comply with all the extra stuff would be seen as me not fulfilling this part of the contract and would be deemed a disciplinary matter. As much as I didn't want to be taken for a mug, I also had a mortgage to pay and needed the job/a decent reference. It didn't seem worth the risk to try and call the HT's bluff."

    Sums it all up, really...
  19. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    If you believe that to be true, then there is nothing to stop an HT insisting that cooking lunch for the pupils is a reasonable duty and that failing to do so would be deemed a disciplinary matter.

    I really don't see why you are so frightened at the prospect of others being paid to run an extended day - it already happens in the many schools that run breakfast clubs. Anyway, since you have no more information than I about how this extended hour will be run, I think there is no point in boring everyone silly with more guesswork.
  20. install

    install Star commenter


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