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School days to get longer

Discussion in 'Education news' started by phlogiston, Mar 16, 2016.

  1. whitestag

    whitestag Senior commenter

    I'll run clubs.

    Or I'll mark my books and prep my lessons.

    But you're not having both.
  2. man501

    man501 New commenter

  3. secretsiren

    secretsiren Star commenter

    This is why I have spent the whole of yesterday trying to figure out how I could find the money to retrain. As a secondary teacher with primary age children, I would lose out on seeing my own children - again. What would happen is that KS3 will have 'enrichment' activities and sit there exhausted and unhappy before getting on the bus to spend another 30-40 minutes getting home, perhaps getting home at 5.30pm. KS4 will have registered, compulsory exam drilling. Teachers won't be paid any extra but they will be told to do it (and I'm betting a lot of Heads would simply add an hour to the school day with their newfound freedoms to do whatever they want without reference to the old set of pay and conditions) "for the good of the children". If I'm still teaching (and I pray the money for my retraining course is going to fall out of the sky) then I will either do the hour OR do my marking. They simply can't have both.
    Compassman and Anonymity like this.
  4. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    If it is something to be bid for, and (some of) the staff don't want it even though SLT does, there must be a temptation for them to do what they can to surreptitiously sabotage it.
  5. Compassman

    Compassman Star commenter

    Good post by @secretsiren.

    If KS3 aren't getting home until 5.30pm will those pupils still be expected to do homework after that? Many schools have homework policies so these are going to go out of the window if the pupils don't get home until later? Or is it just that the kids will be doing school work until 7 or 8pm at night? They are kids for God's sake! Of course, the value of lots of homework is also questionable in my view.

    As for compulsory revision classes, this will also not be of great benefit. By 3.30pm the children are tired they cannot just carry on absorbing more information and revising . They are not machines.

    Finally, as also mentioned, how is this going to improve the massive problem of teacher workload. If teachers are going to have an extra hour taken out of their day to do revision (and let's face it academy heads will be forcing this) then it will affect planning and marking time. My thoughts are that more teachers will leave adding to the recruitment and retention crisis.
    -myrtille- likes this.
  6. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    Good letter about this in paper today - later bus services will be required:

    Following the announcement that schools are to be funded to stay open later than 3:30pm, I assume the DfE have already checked this out with the bus companies who will need to provide an extra fleet of buses to run during the rush-hour?

    The reason the school day traditionally ends at 3:30 is simple: it’s all to do with the bus companies only being able to supply a school service at that time. Meanwhile, as the funding will only be for 25 per cent of schools, one wonders how the DfE is going to choose which ones will remain open later. Those closest to railway stations perhaps?

    Tristram Shepard


    phlogiston likes this.
  7. phlogiston

    phlogiston Star commenter

    I agree about the buses, although most of the bus companies serving my old school did not also run public service buses.
  8. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Many of the schools here in the Cotswolds already run late buses most days except Friday.
  9. Deirds

    Deirds Senior commenter

    My son's school already has a lot of compulsory after-school and lunchtime activities. Mainly in Year 11 (when they had compulsory Easter holiday classes as well.)

    I'm hoping they'll just put this stuff under the extended day. Heaven forbid they add yet another hour to the school day.

    To cap it all they had a compulsory Parents Evening (actually, all their Parents Evenings are compulsory) to explain our little darlings may be a tad stressed out and what we could do to to help - strangely they didn't seem to reflect on the pressures they're heaping on them.
    delnon and Compassman like this.
  10. blazer

    blazer Star commenter

    My yr 11 form were asking about this today. So I told them that if it goes ahead they will be told that they have to stay behind and do whatever clubs or activities we provide. They responded with a 2 word comment. The second word being 'off'!

    I also told them that the people thinking up this idea never went to a normal school and were borders and so never went home at the end of the school day and so had no idea!
    Compassman, delnon and FrankWolley like this.
  11. inceywincey

    inceywincey Occasional commenter

    I know schools try this. Where I work they will arrange for students to be ferried about, but as a parent you can refuse. I'd rather my son joined us on holiday, for evening meals and continued in a sport he enjoys and as a result will not consent to all these extra classes - they are bad for teachers and bad for pupils.
    Compassman and monicabilongame like this.
  12. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Neither Nicky Morgan nor George Osborne were boarders.

    Personally, I don't see why extending school till 4.30 is causing such a fuss. I went to an East London state Grammar in the 1950s where lessons ended at 4.15 and after-school activities finished at 5.30pm. I can't remember when this nonsense of finishing at 3.15 first crept in.
  13. aspen_1

    aspen_1 New commenter

    The extended day will be compulsory for pupils who attend the schools which win the bid.
  14. Lara mfl 05

    Lara mfl 05 Star commenter

    I went to school during the late 50-60s and I seem to remember Primary school finishing at 4 (3,30 for Infants) though I do remember a longer lunchtime giving children time to go home so must have been well over an hour. Secondary School at 4.15 too, yet by the time I started teaching (mid 70s) it had changed to 3.30.

    Most independent Schools work later, though the last lesson is often 'Prep' so homework for the children and staff have time to mark.
    delnon likes this.
  15. secretsiren

    secretsiren Star commenter

    The fuss is because of workload. I very much doubt the extra money will be used to pay staff - it will be shunted into keeping the schools open and perhaps providing some equipment but not for paying staff. Which therefore means an extra lesson's planning per day for each staff member which means extra marking, extra resource-making and less time in which to do it. In the 50s, were staff expected to do triple marking? My teachers tick marked (I found some exercise books recently and there was nothing written on 90% of the pages and there was detailed comment on the other 10%) for the most part and feedback was verbal (which all now has to be recorded). I also bet your teachers in the 50s weren't being asked to fill in the enormous amount of paperwork we now have to do (my dad quit teaching after a breakdown in 1996 and he'd been teaching since the 70s - massively increased workload was one major reason for his quitting and for the breakdown).
    phlogiston and Anonymity like this.
  16. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    When there was industrial action in the mid-1980s and many teachers refused to work at lunchtimes, schools started cutting their lunchtime - and therefore finishing earlier. I worked at one in the early 1990s that had a 35 minute lunchtime (less time for pupils to get into trouble) and finished at 14.35, later extended to 14.45...
    phlogiston and wanet like this.
  17. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Why do you assume that existing staff will be involved? There's nothing to that effect in the white paper. It merely states that funding will be available to 25% of secondary schools "to include a wider range of activities, such as sport, arts and debating". That could be provided by sports coaches, animateurs, music hubs and the like. Of course, it remains to be seen whether the money will be ring-fenced.
  18. davidmu

    davidmu Occasional commenter

    I had the same experience as florian gassman as far as school hours in the 50's. All pupils who lived less than a mile from school had to go home at lunchtime unless there were reasonable circumstances, eg one parent family possibly a war widow. It was to save on unrationed food being available to those who did not need it.
  19. delnon

    delnon Lead commenter

    Anonymity likes this.
  20. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    I to used to work till 4 but we did have 1 and half hours dinner..often because we had to walk to a local dinning hall for lunch as the school didn't have lunch facilities..We all lived local and most kids could walk home.We also had break in the morning and afternoon.
    We didn't start school till 9 and that was Sec Mod school.

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