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Saying no to badly behaved children

Discussion in 'School trips' started by dutschke68, Jun 12, 2016.

  1. dutschke68

    dutschke68 New commenter

    Hi everyone- I've done a lot of trips abroad over the years, and always taken people on first come, first served basis, come what may. As a result I have taken some interesting characters, but give or take a few mishaps, it has always worked. However, I haven't done a trip for a while, and I'm about to start organising one. In the time out from trips, I have observed many horror stories, which now make me think I should be a bit more selective about the pupils I take. Also considering the year group, there are one or two who I would certainly not want to be responsible for abroad- they would ruin it for the others.

    So my question is, how do I go about selection? Our SMT seem quite unwilling to support staff who have wanted to remove people from trips pre-departure. I think the solution would be to bar naughty people from the very start, but someone mumbled in the staff room that it may be illegal to select pupils based on their behaviour records?

    My ideas are - limit the numbers ( to create a need for selection process, and then...
    -have a magic hat, which magically only produces the names of good pupils
    - do an application form, selecting the best aplications ( a bit like a job application, naughty kids probably wouldn't be bothered to fill it in.)
    -say in the letter - in the event of over subscription, places will be allocated based on behaviour record ( my preferred option, but see comment above about legality)

    Any other suggestions? Or if you have tried any of the above, any advice?
    Thanks in advance!
  2. Geoff Thomas

    Geoff Thomas Star commenter

    Magic hat.

    Or tell SMT right up front that while you are happy to run the trip (I assume it is for study(?)) you must have the final say on the students who are permitted to travel with you, failing which it will not run at all.

    (And where are you planning to go?)
    caress likes this.
  3. hhhh

    hhhh Lead commenter

    Cost can weed out some students anyway (me, and no, I wasn't naughty).
  4. dutschke68

    dutschke68 New commenter

    Thanks for replies!
  5. RichardPThomas_

    RichardPThomas_ New commenter

    A child maybe excluded from a visit if they pose a significant risk to others, should a child be excluded then they must have the opportunity to access the same learning in school.

    The following document from the OEAP is useful:

  6. MissHallEnglish

    MissHallEnglish Occasional commenter Forum guide and community helper

    Ultimately, you have responsibility for the group. You have to be confident in and be able to trust the students you are taking. Staff accompanying your trip are also important, so you know you're well supported. Have contingency plans or a behaviour policy for the trip before you go.

    Personally, I've done the 'magic hat'. Students who don't get 'selected' first time round, go onto a reserve list which also follows the 'magic hat' rules, if someone else drops out.

    I run the ski trip at my place: this year, some characters which other staff thought were interesting selections actually had a fantastic week without their ringleader around... Not selecting a few notable names may also allow other students with a smaller 'reputation' a chance to breathe and actually benefit greatly from the trip you're running.

    Best wishes!
  7. MissHallEnglish

    MissHallEnglish Occasional commenter Forum guide and community helper

    Oh, forgot to mention, I make the behaviour expectations clear at the meeting I deliver to parent before the trip; that night they also sign a 'behaviour contract' which parent and child sign.

    The initial letter that goes home to register interest for a trip is an 'expression of interest' - those names then go into the 'magic hat'.
  8. blazer

    blazer Star commenter

    At our school pupils will be refused places on trips or have places withdrawn if their behaviour is deemed to put themselves, other pupils or staff at risk on the trip. Our policy states this.

    There have been the odd instance where the trip leader has asked for a pupil to be excluded from the trip, the school management refused and so the teacher withdrew from the trip which usually means the whole trip is cancelled.

    Staff should not be expected to put their career or even their liberty on the line for the sake of a school trip. And to be honest the other kids on the trip get to enjoy some time away from the class lunatic!
    henrypm0 and Geoff Thomas like this.
  9. Camokidmommy

    Camokidmommy Established commenter

    My daughter was refused a place on a trip which was a reward for students who had basically been good and worked hard. She has an exemplary academic record and attendance, is very well behaved (evidenced by postcards home and parents evening/reports. Etc...) and is one of those students you would love to have in your class.

    The reason for the refusal? We, as parents had refused to comply with a new uniform policy as the item introduced was, in our opinion totally inappropriate and extortionately priced from a single supplier.

    Our solution? We took her to the venue of the trip (following the coach £300 miles up there ) and let her join in with her friends. She had a delightful day which she so totally deserved!

    If students cannot be trusted to behave they should be penalised but in the case of my daughter it was purely a power trip for the school concerned!
  10. blazer

    blazer Star commenter

    If you don't like the school's uniform policy you are entirely free to choose a school that has one you approve of!

    So you think a pupil should be rewarded for refusing to follow the school rules even though it was you forcing her to not conform?

    As for you taking her on the trip. It would have been an interesting case if your daughter or one of her friends had an accident while together.
    henrypm0, sabrinakat and DYNAMO67 like this.
  11. Camokidmommy

    Camokidmommy Established commenter

    We weren't forcing her to not conform. She felt very strongly about this before we aired a view.

    Policy was brought in against many parents wishes and uses a single, expensive supplier. We were told they would not be brought in for her year group, rather phased in from each new y7 intake. Would have different view if it had been part of the uniform from the outset.

    Mr C was on site at all times so taking parental responsibility and others were supervised by 'checking in' at given times.
  12. jago123

    jago123 Established commenter

    Should be teachers discretion. If the child is a tool why should they be allowed
  13. bevdex

    bevdex Star commenter

    Several years ago we had a mother drag her son into school to be "told off" for lighting fires in his bedroom. She was most surprised when we would not take him on a residential trip!
    Ryan91 likes this.
  14. misspent

    misspent New commenter

    I run a large trip abroad every year. I have yet to refuse a pupil based on behaviour but if it put others safety at risk I certainly would not hesitate. In general I have found that most pupils who may behave badly in school tend not to on a trip. We have had some minor incidents but not usually with the pupils we expect. I'm a strong believer in letting all pupils have the opportunity to participate in a trip and do not limit numbers based on this.

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