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Say No To The Use of Unqualified People in Teaching

Discussion in 'Further Education' started by -, Jan 8, 2013.

  1. I find myself agreeing with Teachered to some degree.
    Just because I have a driving licence it doesn't mean I am a good driver (although I will point out it is a clean licence). It does however mean that I meet the minimum standards for safe driving so as to protect other road users.
    I do believe teachers of children, particularly younger and vulnerable children, must be able to demonstrate a minimum standard of ablity before they take responsibility for a class; in other words to be qualified, and I was always led to believe that QTS represented this minimum standard.
    But this is not necessary in FE, nor is it practical or desirable for teachers to be qualified teachers before they teach, (for the reasons Teachered has outlined).

  2. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    " In an earlier post you said the present policy on qualifications
    contradicted the DfE's line on quality. The petition, however, declares
    this to be: "we all know that every child deserves to have a high quality teacher for every moment in class." So there is, in fact, no reference to qualification/s in the DfE's statement. "
    Er... yes there is. The petition quote is taken from DfE statement on this.
    "Qualifications are all they know and there is some unchallengeable
    belief that qualification = excellence. "
    This is simply your opinion, not objective fact. Having a qualification doesn't automatically = excellence but it does show that a person has reached a required level of understanding regarding the teaching and learning process. They continue to refine this with actual experience.
    " As it is I cannot support it as it simply fails the evidence test. "
    It was obvious from the beginning you didn't want to support it. So no surprise here.
    You seem to be quite bitter towards those with qualifications and experience and want to take every opportunity to denigrate them. I wonder why this is?

  3. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    Not even when they are teaching school subjects to school children in FE???

  4. I work in a large cosmopolitan general college with over 17,000 students. Of which less than a dozen fall into this category, (there are more following vocational courses).
    They are 14+ students who cannot learn in mainstream schools and follow an alternative curriculum. My observation of such students is that they require a different pedagogical paradigm - and you don't get this from teachers with standard teaching quals/experience.
    However you have a point in so much as this situation may change; my college has approval to sponsor a UTC (as do other colleges) and this does pose some interesting questions with regard to who should teach the children and what qualifications they should have.
    The problem here is that the standard qualification and qualification route for school teachers does not suit such schools, but the FE model of teach first, and qualify later, is not ideal either.
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    Who's dissing FE lecturers? Most of the FE lecturers I know call themselves teachers. Strange you don't. It's you who's dissing me. Why? What's your problem?

  6. I think I support the aims of the petition but do have some issues with some of the things mentioned on this thread.
    With regard to FE teachers working with/in/for schools - I have gone into two feeders schools as a teacher, although subcontracted via the college, to teach GCSE in my subject. The schools wanted my expertise, "excellent" teaching (whatevs) and to start building the links to the college early on. It actually worked very well and I can foresee this happening more and more if austerity takes a hold on education any more than it has already.
  7. Actually, Pobble is being accurate rather than strange here! Post 16 trained teachers are technically called College Lecturers lecturers for short) to distinguish them from University Lecturers. I've always disliked that title (except as part of my current username, which I chose for the sake of memorability and quickness). Firstly, it sounds strange. Secondly, the title suggests that College teaching is the same as University teaching (which it isn't), so I call myself a Teacher or Tutor (if I'm not doing whole group teaching during term time).

    I agree entirely with what you've written, pobble.
  8. I found a reference to his petition on opinion.(That's time I won't get back, but it was marginally better than ironing) It was on a thread called 'medics protect their status'. Just the place I'd go to sign!
    Darryann - If you are serious about this petition, do it properly. Present it as you have done here on multiple forums, not hide it away on an obscure thread that had few posters. Otherwise, how do you expect it to have any success?
    Right, I'm done with this now - I must do ironing!
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

  10. historygrump

    historygrump Star commenter Forum guide

    I can speak with a foot in many camps, in that I am qualified FE teacher or tutor (I prefer the term teachers, because that is what we all do) and secondary teacher, I have QTS and QTLS, and have the experience of starting my career as a classroom support person before going onto training to become a teacher. So I can recognise how important the petition is, in that I have seen FE teachers, who have trained hard, with good and high quality qualifications slowly replaced in colleges by less qualified or unqualified staff, like assessors and no one spoke out. Now it as become accepted in colleges and that is unfair on the students at that level. As it is unacceptable at secondary or primary level for students to be taught by staff with no qualifications and that is why I support the e-petition.
    I am scared that what as happened in the FE sector and will occur in the pre-sixteen or compulsory education sector, and to some extent it as become a fact in many schools, especially when Michael Gove announces that academies can recruit anyone to teach with or without qualifications. This petition is not anti-FE teachers, because the latest suggested reforms have suggested that the training of FE teachers should be in line with those training to teach in schools and speaking from experience, it is already of the same standard because those doing the pgce FE courses, the level of qualifications are to a great extent the same, it is just the students and management approaches that are slightly different. It is the use of unqualified or semi-qualified staff that is undermining our educational system, when my local lollipop lady is promoted to casual TA to cover lessons, then I worry and that is why we should fight the eroding of our status as teachers. I do not care if it is in the FE college or schools, because every time a FE teacher is replaced by someone who is unqualified or when a teacher is replaced by a TA or unqualified cover supervisor it all the same, an attack on the professional status of teachers and an attack on the levels of education our students deserve.
    So I urge that we remain united on the issue and that we all support the petition. I accept that the argument that the E-petition is directed at schools, but that is the new battleground in terms of the use of the unqualified to teach.
  11. This is what people like myself have been trying to say to Daryann all along but it all turned into a nasty flaming war! :-(

    Thank for you posting as the voice of reason! The situation that you described in your post mirrors my experiences as an FE teacher (currently working in a school) exactly, which is why I signed the petition. :)
  12. Eternalwinter

    Eternalwinter New commenter

    I think we should first analyse the word 'qualified'. A person with a Phd would be classed as unqualified, a professional actor teaching drama the same, a French man/woman teaching French... However, a qualified ( QTS) ICT teacher would be qualified to teach your son/daughter English.
    I am totally against schools employing people who don't have the right skills ( QTS or not). I want, people with the right skills teaching in our schools.Now we are seeing graduates with no personality, willingness to teach and other issues getting into classrooms legally qualified and this is a great concern.
    If the professional and experienced actor can teach drama better than a 24 year old NQT, the school should employ the first and once in employed, require him to complete further training.
    We should never let the wrong people into the classrooms "qualified" or "unqualified". Want a petition for that!
  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    As you know Cosmos, I replied to this some time ago. For some reason it was deleted. Anyway, as I said before, it's not hidden away on obscure threads but is on many threads. I don't want toget into another argument with you by you saying you have looked for them but can't see them. Just do me a favour and take my word for it that the petition details are on many threads.

  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    psylec, the flaming war was started by some people who objected to me posting the petition links (even though they claimed to have signed it - how they can sign and then object God only knows!), and continually stating that vocational experience in FE was more important than qualifications, therefore the links should not be on an FE forum. They also stated that only 6 people read this forum and this was another reason why I shouldn't post the links. I was then accused of posting to annoy people, having an agenda other than trying to raise support for the petition,'dissing' lectureres and other absurd claims. All this from people who claim to support the petition! You will have read all of these yourself before they got deleted.
    Even if only around 6 people post on this forum (less if we take into account the multiple fake usernames used by them - so that would make it around 2- 3 people!) it doesn't mean only 6 people actually read the forum. I said early on and all the way through this thread that I was trying only to raise support but this was denied and certain people became very nasty. I also stated early on, as the poster historygrump says above, that it's an issue which affects both FE and schools and thatcurrent policies were an attack on the whole of education. But that was denied too. Then began the abusive and bullying tactics by some in order to get me to totally stop posting here, as though it was their own little cyber kingdom and where they could dictate who said what and when. Only those who didn't disagree with their opinions were immune from the bullying and abuse. You have made your own opinions about these people clear and I have agreed with them on another thread. The answer to your question there is, no it hasn't put me off talking to FE teachers at all, because as you said yourself, some of the people here do not represent the majority of FE teachers in any way. It's just a pity that such people attempt to hijack a very important issue which affects everyone involved in education.

  15. It was deleted when this thread was temporarily taken down to remove abusive comments following complaints.
  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    Of which there were many and which thankfully were deleted.

  17. I think I've missed something here! I didn't notice that some posts had been removed until a couple of days ago (another user told me). That said, I've not been on here for a few days because I've been teaching.

    Thanks for your comments in your previous post to me, Darryann! :)
  18. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    A lot of posts were deleted. Strange though that I had to reply to you twice on the other thread because the first time I did it was deleted and the 2nd time it was deleted ! Also the OP's comment following it was deleted twice! Very strange! I wonder what is going on? But you read it anyway so will understand my meaning as I understood yours.

  19. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

  20. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

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