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SATS grades for English?

Discussion in 'Primary' started by Mariecapper, Apr 15, 2012.

  1. Mariecapper

    Mariecapper New commenter

    Can anyone please shed some light on how English will be graded this year? As in - we know we do teacher assessment. but -

    1) how will they get an overall English grade for the purposes of RAISE online?
    2) how will we establish mini levels if we are only being told to mark as whole levels?
    3) how will we get an overall combined maths/English grade if no one knows what's happening in point 1 ?

    No one in our LA seems to know (Essex) and it's getting pretty late in the day!! Especially given that the govt can't ask us for a raw score to feed in, all they are allowed to ask for is the level. So I could be saying level 4 - but they'll have no idea if that child is a 4c or a 4a - so actually for the kids that are in the 'a' band of their levels they could get the short straw?

    All seems to be a bit made up and poorly thought through - but I'm willing to listen to anyone who has got any better knowledge of what's happening!!
  2. poet

    poet New commenter

    I just raised this again with SMT today. No clue - would be keen to hear! [​IMG]
  3. [​IMG] Help!! I need to know the answer to this question. The arrangements booklet is as clear as mud!

  4. Wera6

    Wera6 New commenter

    Maybe there will be more on the DFE website nearer the time?
    Data Returns and reports dont usually get sent anywhere til June!

    ...and by the way OP the levels are never abc its always 3 4 or 5
  5. But TA levels usually are. We are being told that there will be no sub level for TA writing just 3,4 or 5. That's the part that has us all scratching our heads - how will that give an overall level for English?
  6. To be honest, I don't know what the fuss is about. Now I'm not in Y6 this year, so maybe it's changed. But we've always had to TA all three strands of Literacy: Reading, Writing and Speaking and Listening each of which is worth a third towards an overall Literacy level. Yes, you have to TA the writing this year without a NC test but you have to do that for S&L anyway...
    Apologies if I'm misinterpreting what you're saying.
  7. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    It doesn't work that way with KS2 SATs NC assessments
  8. Well I'd have to disagree - check out page 40 of the ARA for 2012:

    At the end of Key Stage 2, teacher assessment judgements for English, mathematics and
    <font face="MyriadPro-Regular">
    science are reported with the National Curriculum test results.

    For any child who has completed the programme of study and has taken one or more of

    the tests early, schools must report the teacher assessment level in that subject in the same

    school year.

    Schools are required to submit teacher assessment judgements by 13 July 2012 in order for

    an overall English level to be made available to schools, parents and receiving secondary

    schools. Failure to meet this deadline may result in schools not receiving an overall English

    level by the end of the summer term.

    </font><font size="5" face="ITCAvantGardeStd-Bk">10.2 What do teachers have to assess?

    </font>At the end of Key Stage 2, teachers summarise their judgements for each eligible child,

    taking into account the child&rsquo;s progress and performance throughout the Key Stage. They

    need to determine:

    <font size="6" face="MyriadPro-Regular">&bull;
    </font>a level for each attainment target in English, mathematics and science; and

    <font size="6" face="MyriadPro-Regular">&bull;
    an overall subject level in each of these subjects.

    Teachers should base their judgements on the level descriptions in the National

    Curriculum. They should use their knowledge of a child&rsquo;s work over time to judge which

    level description is closest to the child&rsquo;s performance, taking into account written, practical and

    oral work as well as classroom work, homework and the results of school examinations or tests.

    Teacher assessment provides a rounded judgement that:

    <font size="6" face="MyriadPro-Regular">&bull;
    </font>is based on knowledge of how the child has performed over time and in a variety
    <font face="MyriadPro-Regular">
    of contexts; and

    </font><font size="6" face="MyriadPro-Regular">&bull;
    </font>takes into account strengths and weaknesses of the child&rsquo;s performance.
    <font face="MyriadPro-Regular">
    In assessing a child&rsquo;s performance in English writing, the tests must be taken into

    consideration when forming a judgement.

    Teachers should consider the level descriptions of the attainment targets immediately

    above and below the level awarded to confirm this level is the closest match to the child&rsquo;s

    The bit in bold was what I used to fill in on our school system which was then sent off online. The English was always a 3 ways split: Reading/Writing/Speak&Listen to give a total divided by 3. Maths was MA1, MA2, MA3, MA4 with MA2 worth X5 and MA3 X2 to give a score divided by 10 and Science was SC1, SC2, SC3 and SC4 with SC1 worth x2. I'm presuming looking at the ARA that this is still the case? Again, if this has changed then I'm happy to say I'm wrong, but I can't see anything that says different.
  9. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    That is the TA part but for this year for English there will be a reading and Spelling test which is externally marked and a Writing test which may be internally or externally marked

    It is a statutory requirement for schools to administer a level 3-5
    English writing test. Schools were offered a choice of administering

    • an internally marked test, between February and the end of June; or

    • an externally marked test, on Tuesday 15 May.
    Level threshold tables enable schools to convert test marks into National Curriculum levels.
    thresholds will be updated on 10 July 2012 when the results of the 2012 tests are published.
  10. So you report the test result in the reading, then the score in the writing will be converted as per the threshold tables this will give you a combined score for Literacy as per previous years - the only difference is the writing test might be marked by yourself. I must be worn out after one day, I still don't see the problem!
    People complain for years about the writing then when it's abolished, people complain again...some times you just can't win [​IMG]
  11. I for one am not complaining about the fact that the writing test has been abolished.
    But, you are missing our point.
    The results that are published, made available to parents & used to judge a school's performance include SATs results. Overall English was a combined score from 50 marks writing & 50 reading. This meant that a child could score high Lv 3 in one, Lv4 in the other & get overall Lv4.
    As there is only a TA judgement for writing of Lv3, 4 or 5 how can this be combined with a SATs reading score out of 50 to give an overall level?
  12. luffenham

    luffenham New commenter

    The confusion I think is that the score from the internally marked test (if thats the chosen route) can only inform your teacher assessment. Yes you could add the scores to get a overall score but is that then what you would send in to FFT? It cant be as writing is teacher assessed level looking aat range of work.
    In previous years we provided single level Teacher assessment for reading and writing and overall english, but test levels (used as the stick to beat us with perhaps) for overall english level were calculated numerically by adding a reading test score and a writing test score.
    If there is no numerical score for writing, just a level (3, 4, 5) but a numerical score for reading say...41 out of 50 (I can hope!) How will powers that be calculate an overall level using say Level 4 (writing)and 41 out of 50(reading) How do you combine these? Will we need to? What will fischer family trust do without a writing sublevel? Question...questions...
    And Im not sure I made any sense there...hopefully it will all come clear soon.
  13. luffenham

    luffenham New commenter

    Spindrift...you were quicker and MUCH clearer. Thanks!
  14. Well yours was clear to me!
    I think you can tell which ones of us are in Yr6 & feeling the frustration of not knowing just what the stick they are going to beat us with looks like.
  15. we've been told there is a formula that will be used to give an overall English level so it can be published on RaiseOnline but we may have to wait till Autumn to find out. The adviser tried to explain it but I can't remember how it worked.
  16. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    The writing test as far as I can tell will be marked in the same way as the KS1 (ARA says same as KS1) which will give a mark, which will be combined with the reading and spelling mark to give an overall level.
  17. zugthebug

    zugthebug New commenter

    except this is unsed to inform TA not to be TA. SO if a child does badly, say their pet rabbit just died, then the teacher can use all the evidence already gathered and ignore the test score
  18. I was told at my LA Writing Moderation session today by the advisors that writing will be a straightforward level 3, level 4, level 5 and, if you have any, level 6 teacher assessments. There would be no medium for distinguishing between those just scraping through, those who are secure and those at the higher end of these levels. With this approach it would appear that writing is going to be worth "more" than reading with the assessing happening at a whole level judgement rather than sub-level inside a whole level.

    This year it would appear that a borderline child really needs to reach a Level 4 in writing to stand any chance of being awarded an overall level 4 in English. This also has an impact on your CVA and APS progression in writing, especially if a school has a high proportion of 2b/2a writers. Children at 2b/2a will all need to reach a level 5 in their writing to hit very good/outstanding progress targets of at least 14 APS. If these children attain below a level 5 then they will only hit in the case of the 2b child satisfactory progress and falling behind progress for the 2a child even if the teacher actually thinks they are a high attaining level 4 (4a) but doesn't have enough evidence to secure the level 5! It does beg the question: Will there be a pressure to up-level these children?

    This is also the case for the Level 3 KS1 writer (21 APS) who if assessed at Level 5 (33 APS) has only made the satisfactory progress and will need to attain Level 6 to reach very good/outstanding progress targets of 14 APS. I wonder how many schools are aware of this issue and will this lead to a high number of children being pushed through the optional level 6 papers in the hope of hitting progress targets?

    After my moderation meeting today, I feel that even if the children score a level 6 in the writing test, it will be very difficult to support this with a range of evidence that has the depth and complexity in the use of irony, humour and sub-plots, which were clearly presented to me today as key aspects in securing the level 6 grade for writing. Will all schools across the country be using this or just the National Curriculum level descriptors and writing standard examples that don't show these features in any major form?

    However, if you have a 2c writer who gains a Level 4 teacher assessment (4b) and is just across the border line (4c or Low Level 4) then you will get an extra APS bonus...great for CVA and APS progression but statistically fair for all schools?

    Now, with many schools being desktop monitored by Ofsted using National Curriculum Test (SATs - Sorry Markuss!) statistics on attainment and achievement, it is fair to say that these areas play such a major role in how judgements are being reached about a school. It would be great if updated guidance on this issue could be shared with everyone asap on the DFE site. The updated guidance on the internal tests appeared very quickly and clearly explained the protocols for these internal tests and maybe an update of information on KS2 assessment is on the way but suggestions on this site and from others today were that we would not know the process until the autumn at the earliest.
    I am still pinning my hopes and expectations that those making this decision for this "one year" change do come up with a formula, which works fairly for everyone. However, in the current format, I can't quite see how it is possible without schools in different contexts being majorly advantaged or disadvantaged. [​IMG]
  19. We're you given any exemplifications? I can only see Lv2 & Lv6 on the website.
  20. Ooops! Was obviously tired when I wrote that.
    Just looking at level descriptors and wondering why a Lv3 needs "handwriting is joined and legible" but a Lv 6 only needs "handwriting is neat and legible"


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