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Salary question: leadership positions

Discussion in 'Teaching overseas' started by TBS999, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. TBS999

    TBS999 New commenter

    Hello all,

    I appreciate this is a big and rambling question but very roughly, what does "competitive" mean with regards salary for assistant/vice or principal positions in different regions? Very grateful for any indication,

    TBS
     
  2. gone east

    gone east New commenter

    The short answer is whatever the school wants it to mean
     
  3. spanboy

    spanboy Occasional commenter

    I really don't know why schools aren't up front with salary ranges, not just in leadership but all levels - it would save a lot of wasted time (and money) for both parties!
     
  4. T0nyGT

    T0nyGT Lead commenter

    Competitive almost always means poor
     
    Mermaid7 and dumbbells66 like this.
  5. gulfgolf

    gulfgolf Established commenter

    The term is used by most schools, including by every school I've personally worked in. That range ran the gamut from high to low. The best had the best package in the country, and had been benchmarked by Deloitte & Touche as being firmly within the top 10% of packages worldwide. The worst was in the bottom tier for the country and region, though still paid 30% more than the lowest schools in the country (but only about 60% of the best package in the country).
    So yes, the term means nothing.
     
  6. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    It generally means;

    "We know what every other school is paying and we will not pay anymore then the rest".

    The school will pay the minimum it can to hire staff, not a penny more!

    Nearly all the international schools in an area combine to form a cartel and agree on school fees and salary packages for staff. Many rent-a-name schools based in different countries are equalizing their financial packages to be the same from one country to another, so what is paid in Dubai is the same as Shanghai. The direction the benefits and salary are heading is DOWNWARD!

    Five yesrs ago 32k rmb was competitive now 22k rmb is competitive when converted into GBP.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  7. kemevez

    kemevez Occasional commenter

    I think it's actually heading in the other direction. My thinking is no less unsupported by evidence than yours but I think there are many more opportunities out there to either make a better living than at home, have a better lifestyle than at home and sometimes both of those things together. The pool of elite schools that have a very significant minority of their teachers walking around like preened up peers of the (again minority) vacuous bankers and oil boys are probably thinner on the ground nowadays than they were in yesteryear - but overall the overseas teaching gig is a better one than it woz.
     
  8. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    Its market saturation. China along with the Middle East are now awash with low level, low paying jobs. The market has grown far to quickly. There are still plenty of places paying very well indeed, all over the world...well apart from the sunny southern european countries...but you can be sure that any job advert that says its "competitive" its not. Just look at the intetnational job pages on the TES, nearly every one says it.
    I will put money on India becoming the new destination for decent packages in the next ten years.
     
  9. TBS999

    TBS999 New commenter

    Other than on here, where are the best places to look for international jobs on the net?
     
  10. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    Join search associates
     
    Mermaid7 likes this.
  11. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    Agree with search, also sign up with International School Review.

    Sign up with LinkedIn and post your details in the profile and build your network. Schools are directly contacting me asking if I would consider working for them. Also in the articles posted schools place adverts for teachers and agencies offer their services.

    The education market in China has past saturation point and is heading for meltdown. The numbers of iPGCE entering the job market if definitely lowering the salaries everyone. Why do schools in China need to employ a real teacher when they can hire staff cheaply with iPGCE's at half the costs!
     
  12. mikemcdonald25

    mikemcdonald25 Occasional commenter

    Lots of good points guys and (nearly!) all valid, but it just goes to show how the market has changed over the years but that certain truths are self evident and still apply - do your research, talk to friends and colleagues, if it sounds to good to be true - it probably is, and most importantly, if you don't like the contract don't sign it!!

    "The education market in China has past saturation point and is heading for meltdown. The numbers of iPGCE entering the job market if definitely lowering the salaries everyone. Why do schools in China need to employ a real teacher when they can hire staff cheaply with iPGCE's at half the costs!"

    Not sure about this feb? The expat, high quality market certainly is at or past saturation point but the market for language schools, bilingual schools, and Chinese/Western hybrids is still growing.

    English is still very much in demand - witness the deal with the Philippines, and the demand for those iPGCE teachers is not just for their cheapness its also because most of them have EAL backgrounds and they are better at teaching kids with different levels of English in the same class.
     
    rouxx likes this.
  13. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    I know a number of people in very high level schools with iPGCE's. Schools that most people on here would die to working in. I disagree with Feb31st on this one.

    The issue i think is the over flooding the market with schools that dont follow recognised curriculums. The ones that seem to make it up as they go along, and therefore will only attract low level teachers willing to work for a lot less.
     
  14. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    I always find it amusing to know the schools with the highest tuition fees have the least qualified teachers!
     
  15. Redparrotfish

    Redparrotfish New commenter

    Ah but do they have the least effective teachers?
     
    576 likes this.
  16. nemo.

    nemo. New commenter

    Depends on tier. I went from Assistant Head at a tier 2-3 for profit school (depends who you ask but it was properly accredited ) to just a teacher at one of the most expensive tier 1 schools and had a 50% pay rise. I work 40% less hours and get longer holidays. Really depends!

    Imho if they say competitive it means low paid long hours slave position.
     
  17. Powergnome3

    Powergnome3 Occasional commenter

    I actually think it is simply the case that something has to go in the ‘salary’ section of the TES advert - and (for some reason I cannot fathom) even the higher paying schools will not disclose it at this stage internationally, so the default option is either ‘undisclosed’ or ‘competitive’ - it wouldn’t surprise me if that is added by someone in admin at TES... so in other words, you cannot read anything into the salary - a real shame, as it would save a huge amount of wasted time for candidates and employers.
     
    576 likes this.
  18. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    Many international schools in an area such as Shanghai run a cartel in fixing tuition fees and remuneration packages for staff. None of the schools want to get into a bidding war with each other over students and staff. If one school raises the salary for its staff others will be forced to do the same. So, in Shanghai there is the Council of International Schools in Shanghai where the Directors and Principals of the schools meet to discuss areas of interest! Now these schools are a world wide business they can see the packages on offer in different countries and reduce them all to the lowest possible!


    Now the rent-a-name schools have establishments in China, Hong Kong, UAE, Singapore, Thailand and many other countries they do not want to get into a bidding war again for salaries and packages. A rent-a-name school does not want open discussions why a school in Shanghai has a better package then a school in Thailand. This secrecy even holds in individual schools, staff are told not to discus their own salaries with other teachers as A may discover B is been paid more for the same job.


    But it is such a waste of time to apply for a job, application, interview and then to be told the school pays “chicken feed”.

    The schools DO NOT want salaries to become public knowledge as it is in their financial interest for them to be a secret.
     
  19. rouxx

    rouxx Lead commenter

    If SA (agency) can give a salary range, why can't TES? I don't need exact figures - just enough information to know if I am going to apply.
     
  20. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    Search not only give a salary range, but also expected savings, and a whole heap of other useful information.
    I often think that some schools dont want to say because they just wouldnt get any applications if they did.
     

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