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Salary progression doing long term supply

Discussion in 'Supply teaching' started by xshellbellex, Jan 26, 2011.

  1. Hi all

    I am currently on MPS 4 and have been doing supply work via an agency. I have already been at the same school doing 3 full days a week for nearly a term and a half and looks like I will be there longer. As I am doing this through an agency does it count towards my salary progression?

    Also as I am doing 3 full days am I entitled to PPA time if so how much? The school also has me doing a lunchtime duty 1 day a week (their normal staff would get paid to do it) but being supply does that mean I have to do it? I am lucky if I sit down for 10 minutes that day as I have a full day teaching and have to eat my lunch walking around the dinner hall on duty. And don't even start me on teaching PSE I'm becoming an expert on all topics.

    Any advice please
    I was going to contact my union for advice too on the payscale thing
     
  2. Hi all

    I am currently on MPS 4 and have been doing supply work via an agency. I have already been at the same school doing 3 full days a week for nearly a term and a half and looks like I will be there longer. As I am doing this through an agency does it count towards my salary progression?

    Also as I am doing 3 full days am I entitled to PPA time if so how much? The school also has me doing a lunchtime duty 1 day a week (their normal staff would get paid to do it) but being supply does that mean I have to do it? I am lucky if I sit down for 10 minutes that day as I have a full day teaching and have to eat my lunch walking around the dinner hall on duty. And don't even start me on teaching PSE I'm becoming an expert on all topics.

    Any advice please
    I was going to contact my union for advice too on the payscale thing
     
  3. Haaaaaaahahahahahahahaa! ROFL!

    As a supply teacher, you are very very expensive and the schools resent having to chuck too much money at you, so they will get you to do the maximum, if you have a free because you "are" another teacher and they have a free, you can perhaps take Dave's 10-6, as he has some facebooking to catch up with, or perhaps you'd like to cover that Art, so one of the CS's can be abused somewhere else. PPA time? No f*&%ing chance luv! Duty, yep. If you haven't got a duty, we can soon find you one of those, perhaps Janet has some exams to mark (coffee to drink).


    I find it highly amusing that you have got this far and are so naive. Thankyou for brightening my day up :D
     
  4. ......be glad you are working.
     
  5. I know I am lucky to be working

    The thing that is annoying me is that i am expected to plan all the lessons, write units of work i am teaching and mark all the kids work. Because i rarely get a free i have to take it all home to mark which i am not getting paid to do. Seems as if the school wants the best of both worlds. I know if i was doing general supply i would teach every lesson without frees but if they want me to mark work and plan lessons surely i must be entitled to a certain amount of frees
     
  6. Yep if you are doing 3 days a week in a secondary, they will get their moneys worth out of you.
    A Perm teachers contract has PPA protected, agency no chance.
    Salary Progression, The agency are hardly likely to up your day rate for LSGC (long service and good conduct) a military term!
    However keep all your Pay slips documenting your work. I took on a Perm Position once and the head counted in a years supply work and so I went up an M point.
     
  7. magic surf bus

    magic surf bus Star commenter

    PPA is (I assume) still 10% non-contact time? On three days a week you're working a 0.6 fte, say 15 hours of lessons so if you were permanent you'd be entitled to 1.5 to 2 hours' PPA a week. It's calculated pro rata for part-time permanent staff. On supply there's no guarantee of free time.

    If you're paid agency flat rate, you're paid hourly for about 6.5 hours of work a day. I'm not sure I'd be chucking myself at marking/planning for flat rate, as I'd effectively be working for an hourly wage, whereas being paid to scale is more like getting a salary. However I accept that you may have to be pragmatic about it to remain employable.

    In my simple world view schools can pay for three levels of service - CS rate gets them the Bronze zombie level service, Flat rate gets them the Silver service (ie in half an hour early, tidy room up afterwards, leave feedback, out on the last bell), and Scale rate gets the Gold service (ie do all the hours God sends if the job requires and be seen to stay late).
     
  8. magic surf bus

    magic surf bus Star commenter

    PS: The Working Time Regulations 1998 entitle you by law to an uninterrupted break of 20 minutes if you work more than 6 hours a day. Not that anyone in business seems to take any notice of it. Both my kids have worked endless shifts in their vacation jobs.
     
  9. Just like the teacher's unions only give a &^%$ about the teachers with permanent contracts (and unqualifed staff in some cases), employment law only really applies to those with permanent contracts. You are not equal to "them" and you will not be treated as such. You know where the door is and if you don't like it, you can walk through it. There are plenty of muppets who will sign on the line and agree to the conditions. It's the same with the CS scenario, boycott them! Sadly supply/demand will see that people do the job the way it's asked for. If you ask to be treated properly, or even protected by the law. Bye bye!

    I'd love to say there was some justice in there, or there was an element of decency, but there really isn't. As a supply teacher, you aren't "one of them" and because you are some sort of mutant tapeworm from hell, you will be treated as such.


    My first placement was along the same lines. I was "someone" for months, but whilst simultaneously being an agency valueless b!tch, I could pull the "well, I want to do my best, but you can't offer me anything more concrete than a week's notice, so we have to come to some sort of arrangement. My contract states that I am only paid for my hours in school, so you either cut into my timetable what is best for the children, or you organise the work to be done, I'm quite happy to be the teacher in a full capacity and do what is best for the children, however, I expect to be paid as such".


    When you factor in joke agency rates, you are really doing the school a favour by even giving it a thought. As the school is paying about M4 for you, they expect everything. As they are often ignorant about the detail of supply, it's up to you to inform them..........or be branded a renegade with an attitude problem. Everyone loves a muppet who is prepared to sell themselves short and as supply/demand is skewed, there are more of them about.....
     
  10. I am just glad to be doing some work but the amount of work like marking and planning is equalling the amount i used to do as a full time teacher. It is a high achieveing school i am at and the kids are constantly asking me if i have marked their work and what grades they got. I do feel sorry for the kids and have explained to them that when i get a free lesson to mark i am put on cover in other subjects and that as a supply teacher i dont get paid to do it at home.
    I am getting to the stage where i am putting in less effort because im getting nothing back. For my agency i am classed as a loreal teacher - cus im worth it (the cost of me) so they know they are getting their monies worth out of me and they have had lots of bad supply before me.
    In a no win situation, do a lazy job and they get rid of you, do an amazing job and nobody even notices (apart from the other art teacher)
    I really do hate doing supply but there isnt a single job for teaching art in my area. Although i am a great teacher i seriously condsidering leaving the career
     
  11. Lara mfl 05

    Lara mfl 05 Star commenter

    Believe me we all sympahise with these feelings. But the only way to stand a chance of doing long-term / permanent post is to keep impressing & giving 110%.
     
  12. Numerous classrooms, numerous successful lessons, much praise, complete professionalism etc etc etc etc BUT WHAT CAN ONE DO ABOUT A ROTTTEN AND CORRUPT SYSTEM????? Just get schools to stop using unqualified staff as cover "teachers"...totally unacceptable, immoral and undermining!
    I give 300%?!?!?!... but am I impressing my corrupt agency and the blasted salaried cover manager, yet another bureacrat?! Bottom line: I impress pupils but have they the <u>power</u> to employ me????

     
  13. Moony

    Moony Lead commenter

    I'd question what sort of lessons they expect from you if they don't give you PPA time. I'm on long term supply and I've got blocked PPA time each week, it's only 2 lessons a week but then i'm not working a full time table and I get a reasonable number of additional non-contacts. Those I'm generally fair game for in terms of cover but it does depend on how many people are off. This time on long term i've managed to avoid duty but last time I did long term I did have a duty day.

    I don't know if supply counts towards progression up the pay scales, my guess is probably not. But I do think it's a bit off that they've got you doing a duty on the day when you don't have any free's and are left eating your lunch whilst doing your duty. Can't you speak to them and see if there's someone that you could swap days with?
     
  14. magic surf bus

    magic surf bus Star commenter

    Given that both of them employ you, and pay you, and you appear to regard them with utter contempt, probably not.

    You seem happy enough to reap the rewards of your agency's corrupt practices. The fees they earn from placing cover supervisors go to pay your wages. Doesn't that make you part of it by association?

    Surely if your agency is so loathsome you could leave them and offer yourself independently to schools in order to preserve your moral high ground?
     
  15. jubilee

    jubilee Lead commenter

    You will only go up the payscale on supply if you manage to get some LA paid work on the other days of the week. You need to have done some LA paid work in at least 26 separate school weeks between 1st Sept and 31st August to move up the payscale; just a day per week is enough. It's a silly rule really as you can progress after just 26 days of work in a school year but will not progress in pay if you work 25 f/t weeks for an LA.
    LAs and schools do not generally accept agency experience for pay progression but you may be able to negotiate extra at interview for a permanent job, in the same way that any applicant can try that stance. My sister started in her first post on M3.
    As for PPA, that's statutory for contracted teachers only. You are contracted to an agency, not a school or LA.
    The lunch break is unpaid time and you could refuse to do a duty. However, if your agency contract requires you to work 6.5 hours if required, the school could insist on you staying on extra time after school. I'd suggest talking to someone about how onerous you are finding your schedule given that you are planning and assessing with no time allowance, need to work at home (which you don't mind doing!), have little lunch time and are underpaid for the job.
    As fo wanting to make a good impression in case of contract work being a possibility (or hope), I always regarded agency work as detrimental to getting permanent work as the agency would want a release fee of several thousand pounds for having introduced me to the school. What does you contract say about leaving to take work direct from the school?
     
  16. Paid to scale by an agency??? Really what world do you live in or you up north?
    Down here in lowpaid, nepotistic, xenophobic AND MANIPULATIVE, Devon supply teachers have had to endure only FLAT RATES LET ALONE cs RATES at the ridiculous &pound;6.50/hour below the official rate! How evil and unacceptable is that?
     
  17. Oh yes I do impress them (agencies) and give the schools I work in a sterling teaching service!
    Bottom line: Do pupils (all) want me back? A resounding yes... u bet they do!...but the system needs explaining to them "...But "Sir, u R better than our normal teacher!"
    Stop being so judegmental magic surf bus and quick to prop up a malign, unfair and inequitable servive? STOP PROPPING UP AND SUPPORTING A MALIGN AND PROFITEERING SYSTEM! MOral high ground? Absolute bovine scat.
     
  18. Magic surf bus are you a TA, HLTA, HLTSA, CS, LM (learning mentor), HLLSA or whatever agencie/schools/you would wish to describe yourself OR are you actually a fully qualified and registered teacher who simply wishes to be paid an equitable, fair rate for your hard-earned qualifications, successfully passing of the probation year and wide teaching experience?
    Who are you or do you simply sway with whatever bullying, manipulative agencies/schools would have you be or do?
    I read that you were once part of the SMT at a school somewhere?
    Were you worth it or could the school's cleaner have done your SMT job obviously at a far lower rate of pay better than you?
     
  19. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Lead commenter

    Why do you lot rant at each other....the person only wanted advice
    Myself i know little about secondary supply as I am in primary. However, you dont have to do lunch duty.and to be honest i would refuse as even if you stayed later. You could still get your work set and marked..also mark in your dinnertime.assuming you have place where you can mark it.
    Unsure if you should plan as your not given PPA time to do this.........normally in supply i refuse to plan if i am not given this time..........i just make it up if there is no planning left.eg such as PPA cover or a days work.
    If you are teaching outside of your specialism then you should be getting work set by the head of dept...I used to do that when i was Hof D for teacher 'helping out' in the department.
    Personaly i think you are doing to much..no job is worth that much worry and effort and i would seek to dind a new school if you can.....as others have suggested the school values you very little and you are naive if you think they will.......your merly fodder for the mill.
    Step back and realise that all supply does is give you experience in an area and in teaching in general..it does not lead to promotion and certainly doesn't confer upon you some sort of recognition.
    So stop being used, go back and tell them you dont want dinner duty.they cant make you do it leagally and even if they did i would on principal refuse it as it saves the SMT having to patrol and work......just find out your rights and say get stuffed....in a nice sort of way of course.

     
  20. The expectations of the school are not acceptable. By agreeing to do everything that you are doing you are making the lives of other Supply Teachers more difficult as the school will expect all ST's to do the same amount of work. Teaching is a profession, not slavery.. Report the school to your agency and look for work in other schools.
     

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