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SAC and PEF money

Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by Freddie92, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. Freddie92

    Freddie92 Occasional commenter

    How is the above said cash spent in your school?
  2. bigjimmy2

    bigjimmy2 Established commenter

    Can't remember for deffo, Freddo, but we have some contrived, pretendy Principal Teacher posts called something like "Principal Teacher of Curriculum Development Coordinator" and the like. Our incompetent incumbent of that particular post got wind of what another school is doing and stole that: takes the thinking out of it for him I suppose

    Another PT post for the no-hopers where the pupils get to do lots of cooking, walks in the park, play on the swings etc and be recorded for viewing at inservice days with appropriate uplifting music to let everyone know how great a success it is. And I'm not kidding. I suppose the wee honeys will look back on it fondly when they're sharing a room in Barlinnie for the umpteenth occurrence of petty crime.

    Our Principal Teacher of Raising Attainment is a twenty-something Dance Teacher, and the main function of that job seems to entail frequent emails to the entire school about the importance of signing up for Supported Study. Nothing against dancers, but this country really is crying out for dancers to raise the GDP isn't it?

    Meantime, this country slides down the international league tables for the very basics.
  3. aypi

    aypi Senior commenter

    Ours is good and worthwhile, but I cant say anymore or I will be identifiable. If it is as bad as made out elsewhere I have already said too much.
  4. autoq

    autoq New commenter

    Right sentiments/intentions from government, but at best tackling the symptom (under performance of pupils from deprived backgrounds) and not the cause (many such, ranging from lack of positive parenting , employment opportunities, drug/alcohol abuse ,etc,.etc... we all know them).
    The government cannot really do anything about those big social issues (it would be admitting/acknowledging the many issues with Scottish/UK government policies) and so choose to direct funds into the hands of already well paid teachers. They will probably do an okay job for a few years, but there will be no social improvement (the real issue) and therefore in the long run, there will be very little benefit....
    Alice K likes this.
  5. bigjimmy2

    bigjimmy2 Established commenter

    Which brings me back to a point I've been pondering for some time now: what are schools for?

    Virtually all teachers are, at best, qualified to teach their subject. None have the skills - and certainly not the authority - to deal with the multitude and complexity of personal, familial and social problems that many pupils face. Pastoral Care "teachers" are the epitome of that point - it's just not a teaching job.

    Throwing money at schools/teachers creates the illusion that "something" is being "done". The reality is that PEF money is having zero to negligible effect on almost every pupil in the country, is a waste, and should be stopped.
    autoq, Alice K, aypi and 2 others like this.
  6. Freddie92

    Freddie92 Occasional commenter

    Agree Jimmy.

    We are teachers, educators. We are not psychologists, councillors, bouncers, police, social workers et al.

    I agree that the money spent is being spewed down the drain. I’ve heard of many schools with non-jobs, and again like years ago we have folk justifying their existence by emailing the school.

    I doubt any of this will have a positive effect on pupils or close any poverty or educational gap.

    Why not spend it on resources for pupils?

    I weep for the future of education in Scotland.
    Marisha, Alice K and bigjimmy2 like this.
  7. halfajack

    halfajack Occasional commenter

    One school I know of employed an extra English teacher on a fixed term. They were given a full timetable and other teachers had additional time to do work on raising attainment for assigned year groups (ie the teacher without an S2 would maybe extract pupils or support classes when S2 was in the department). It all fell apart when the teachers just ended up being used for cover in their extra time and the funding had essentially paid for extra supply cover within the school.
    Marisha and bigjimmy2 like this.
  8. MilkyBar Kid

    MilkyBar Kid Occasional commenter

    In normal political times the money wasted on PEF would cause a national outrage. However this, like everything else, will be swept under the Brexit carpet until normal service is resumed. The SG will not publish the SNSA results (we don't do league table up here) so pressure will be placed (especially on Primaries) to inflate CfE levels to demonstate the effectiveness of the PEF money in closing the attainment gap. It's a complete shambles and money is being poured down the drain. It should have gone into early years learning support in Primary and seperate on/off-site provision in Secondary, gets the bams out the classroom and attainment will shoot up, it's not rocket science.
  9. Marisha

    Marisha Occasional commenter

    Can't say too much, but my former head was less than open as to how money was being spent. A lot of waste, I think.
    Gavster77, sicilypat and bigjimmy2 like this.
  10. josephsaint

    josephsaint New commenter

    My school has used it very constructively. The urine on the wall reached record heights. Need to raise that wall.
    bigjimmy2 likes this.
  11. subman68

    subman68 Occasional commenter

    I had the unfortunate pleasure of sitting in Glasgow Royal A&E for an hour this week, most people appeared out of it on recreational drugs, or were just crazy. I have been in some interesting places during a previous military career, I can honestly say this was the most intimidating environment I have been in for a long long time. So whats my point. 75% of the junky clients had kids walking about, shouting, swearing one did something unmentionable on the floor to great cheers and laughter from the junky crew.

    We have to teach these kids, and then we have to justify progress or lack of it to the parent(we all know they don't really parent) that has very little interest at a parents night/information evening. The pole climbing HT and DHT also want to know why Jimmy/Jeannie or more exotic name for the latest show( just how many ways can you spell Chelsea?) Did not get at least 5 Nat5's, your reason of them only attending 68% of classes is not good enough.
    PEF is not going to sort this, no silly PT of helping the SIMD 1 & 2 is going to do this. We have massive social issues in our country the SNP SG (they are the people in power at the moment) need to come up with something better. Don't give a handful of coins to the teachers and tell them to sort out the mess.
    Freddie92 and bigjimmy2 like this.
  12. Gavster77

    Gavster77 Occasional commenter

    In our school the PE department - physical smack bang next door to the SMT corridor - received the lions’ share of PEF posts. PT level posts derived from money intended to raise attainment in lower level kids? Well, far be it from me to say that our PE department are a troupe of troglyditic oafs who couldn’t spell “pastoral” in several goes but the “program” involved the dusting off of old PSE/Guidance courses and worksheets. This included the issuing of a thirty year old textbook called ‘Changes’ written by Bill Cosby...

    I’ve heard tell that a few HTs have had or are due to have collars felt over how PEF was spent and there may even be a sacking in one Lanarkshire school due to misappropriation. Quite how this will go is anyone’s guess... but I haven’t seen our “lower” decile kids helped in any meaningful way.
    Marisha, sicilypat and bigjimmy2 like this.
  13. bigjimmy2

    bigjimmy2 Established commenter

    The prevalence of PE folk amongst "Pastoral Care" tells you that PE isn't a real subject.

    Don't tell me that PE as a subject is difficult. Lots of things are difficult but that doesn't mean they should be regarded as school subjects. Think of that next time you're working late to prepare lessons whilst pupils "doing" PE run about kicking a ball.

    Sorry, PE folks, nothing personal.
  14. halfajack

    halfajack Occasional commenter

    I find it really interesting that any discussion on here about national-level policy always ends up with people slagging off their own colleagues who dare to go for promotion or care about anything other than teaching their subject.
  15. Gavster77

    Gavster77 Occasional commenter

    I’m being slightly facetious but the prevalence of PE bods in many schools’ whole school management posts is kind of beyond a joke. There are many great ones but in the main the intellectual anaemia and lack of humour among people promoted because they look good in formal attire on the front of the school website is a national level concern.
    bigjimmy2 likes this.
  16. bigjimmy2

    bigjimmy2 Established commenter

    Sorry, hj, but the sheer number of young colleagues almost literally in the door and then in a promoted post shortly afterwards beggars belief.
  17. Effinbankers

    Effinbankers Lead commenter

    Personally I don't think you should be able to have a promoted post until you've got to the top of the scale and at least have some time served experience.

    If the governing bodies don't think you should have the full salary until after 5 years in the classroom, then you certainly shouldn't be getting above that for managing people or budgets in a promoted capacity.

    I saw last year someone one year out of probation adding 50% to their salary in one of these PEF posts. And they're utterly hopeless.
    inthered and bigjimmy2 like this.
  18. halfajack

    halfajack Occasional commenter

    You might be right but do you know how experienced the other teachers who applied were? I've heard similar outrage at inexperienced teachers being appointed as department heads but it usually turns out nobody more experienced wanted the job. Also, as far as I understand these PEF promoted posts generally don't involve management of staff.
  19. bigjimmy2

    bigjimmy2 Established commenter

    I don't think it's a matter of how experienced the pool of people applying is, it's the quality that should matter, but it doesn't, and that's a major fault in our education system.
  20. Effinbankers

    Effinbankers Lead commenter

    Yes, I do. Some teachers with well over 10 years experience.

    The appointment process basically came down to which department had slack on their timetable so they could cover a colleague being off timetable for 2 afternoons a week, or something similar. Those on minimum time, in a subject with no supply cover available, had no chance!

    Young PE bod got the role. Justifies it by sending round patronising emails about how we should be doing DYW or some other pile of tripe that teachers are now supposed to take on for free. Sums up PEF!
    Marisha, bigjimmy2 and sicilypat like this.

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