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Rude Year 5s...any ideas? All/any, very gratefully received!

Discussion in 'Primary' started by jumping4joy, May 22, 2011.

  1. Hi, i teach a small class of Year 5s in a low income area of town.
    The majority of my class listen and follow instructions, no problem. However, I have 4 boys in the class who are developing really bad attitudes and are often rude to me and other adults (Harry Enfield's Kevin type behaviour). When i ask them to do things in class, get on with work, etc they often say "No, i don't want to" or "No, i'm not doing it". I think a lot of it is linked to low confidence, ie. they don't think they're going to be able to do it, so it's 'cooler' to refuse to do it than it is to have a go and fail. However, it's having an impact on the rest of my class and is just plain exhausting. I do lots of praising and have reward systems, there's also a whole school behaviour system which i use. They don't get away with any of the bad behaviour but i would like to stop it happening without having to threaten detentions and without interrupting my lessons and stopping all the other kids learning. The four boys feed off each other, so if one's rude the others usually join in and then there's the giggling too...it's really not fun at the moment. (We've had lots of talks about what rudeness is and why we have to show each other respect too)
    Has anyone got any ideas for combatting this annoying, defiant and rude behaviour please???
    Thanks very much!
  2. marlin

    marlin Star commenter Forum guide

    What are the parents like? Would they support you?
    In the past I've had a report sheet filled in at the end of each day - simple few words - (not an essay!) - and the parents have to sign to say they've seen it. Regular meetings with parents too (with the child in attendance for at least part of the meeting) to discuss behaviour.
    I've also made cards that sit on the child's desk. Discuss first with the child and decide what behaviour you are going to focus on so that they understand. I have used:
    1. I look at the speaker
    2. I do what I am asked to do promptly
    3. I put up my hand to ask a question
    4. I wait for my turn
    Start with - A green card with a smiley face that says Green Card behaviour. Well done!
    A second which is amber and says I need to stop and think about what I am doing. Place this without comment on the desk and remove the green card as a warning.
    A third which is amber and says An adult is upset by what I am doing. I will have a consequence. Place this on the table and remove the amber card without comment if the behaviour occurs again.
    Establish beforehand what the consequence is going to be of red card behaviour so that no discussion takes place in the lesson time.
    You could combine the idea of report sheet with the cards - merely stating the number of times that red cards were issued at the end of each day.
    If you like the idea of the cards I could email you word docs of what I used. PM me with your address.
    Hope this helps.

  3. clear_air

    clear_air New commenter

    I taught a group of Y5s last term (15 of them), and I had a problem with the girls with attitude! (yeah but no but yeah but no but...)
    The main one I made a mini book with three target in - I think they were 1. I kept a positive mental attitude (or something like that - there was a real problem with self esteem there), 2. I put my hand up when I want to say something and 3. - I can't remember, but it was something she needed to work on, and I filled it in (using smileys) after every morning. If I had had them all day I would probably have done it after every session.
    I talked a lot about a positive mental attitude, and really bigged up those children who had thrown a strop over a difficult piece of work/one they didn't want to do, and had actually got on with it and found that it was OK. I made a REALLY big deal of praising ANYONE who did this.
    In the end they all got the idea that I was valuing the children who tried, and who didn't give up etc, adn at the end of the term there was a lovely atmosphere in the group and I was really sad that I couldn't stay on and keep encouraging them for the rest of the summer.
  4. Thank you so much Marlin!
    Unfortunately, the parents of these few boys are pretty useless. They take their childrens' word over mine. I started a behaviour book for one boy but he only shows it to his parents as and when. And nothing seems to happen if his behaviour hasn't been good.
    I've had a meeting with the same boy's parents, who went to see the head to say i was picking on him. This really is not the case! And i'm not the only teacher who finds him, in particular, rude. He's received detentions from other adults too.
    The boys have been put on daily reports from the school's learning mentors but i don't think it means much to them.
    The school has a system of warnings similar to your card idea. First of all the children get a warning, then a yellow disc, then 2 and after that a 3rd. On the 3rd they are removed for the remainder of the lesson and receive a detention. I do write them on the board trying not to stop my 'flow' to do so. This is usually met with " Why have i got a yellow disc miss?" although i'm pretty sure they know. Maybe i should just say " You can stay behind at playtime and i'll explain it to you" instead of interrupting the lesson??
  5. Thank you NGedge.
    Will try really hard to do even more praising in class!
    I really like your smiley book ideas but in this particular case i don't really want to give more attention to the bad behaviour by giving them special treatment and special books, as for a couple it is a confidence thing, but for the others it's because as home they get to do what they want and they think they can do that at school too. It feels like i need to break the circle of power that they're trying to exercise in the class...
  6. Can't you withdraw them from other activites too. For example, lunchtime clubs, school football team, school disco. That's what we do at my school when a pupil's behaviour is consistently under par. They soon get the message when they aren't allowed to join the football team or their ticket to the school disco is withheld.

  7. Hiya Classroomlife, thank you..yep, those things happen at my school too.
    These boys are pretty immature though and are more interested in the short term thoug,h i think and it beats any longterm things, ie. They know that if they get a detention then they won't be able to play in the class football team that or the next week, but the immediate desire/impulse to be rude/silly/'cool' trumps the next-week football match...
    Think i will have to speak to the learning mentor about not letting them play football at lunchtimes until their behaviour improves..
  8. marlin

    marlin Star commenter Forum guide

    How much time do the children spend with other adults? If you have a daily sheet that is being filled in by other adults then you have more evidence and it is clear that you are not picking on the children.
    I would go for weekly meetings (have your HT, KS leader or the SEN coordinator with you as support) and review the behaviour sheet with them. Ask the HT to countersign the request for meeting - even if they can't be there. The parents might get fed up with having to come into school every week and decide to do something about changing the children's behaviour!
    If no sanctions are given at home, then you must give all the sanctions in school. I see you have detentions as a punishment. Keep a written record each time another teacher puts the child into detention - further evidence. Ask the teacher that you choose as supporter to come in and observe and record behaviour - don't let the class know purpose of obs though - and it could appear casual rather than formal obs.
    If all else fails -
    Make a chart for the fridge at home and count off the days until the summer holidays. Reward yourself with a glass of wine or nice scented bubbly bath as you tick the days off!

  9. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    I totally ignore that sort of thing. If it becomes disruptive or rude then I would simply move to the next level of sanction, again by ignoring the child and just writing it up, maybe with 'calling out' or something next to their name. They do know why, they just want the attention and are in the habit of arguing.

    Maybe have a good behaviour book for each of the children. They do want attention, they are actively demanding it from you at the moment. Each and every time they have a lesson where they don't get into trouble at all you write in the book. Maybe their parents don't care, but you can and can really go OTT with the praise for doing the right thing. Have a reward at the end of the week for anyone who has 10 or more entries in their book, or something.

    But do talk to the rest of the class one day when these boys are out of the class together for something, get the LMs to take them. Say it might look like they are getting rewards, but the whole class reward is being able to have lessons which are not spoiled and so on. Also say that they are to totally ignore all bad behaviour by the boys, but can say well done for anything good. You could say you are thinking of a whole class reward for when you feel that everyone is helping, as a team, to improve the behaviour and all you need from them is to totally ignore the boys when they act up, to not even look in their direction.
  10. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    Noooooooooooooooo! Not unless you want a total nightmare! If they know they have no football then there is no reason for them to be good right now. It will be a case of 'Well I'm not allowed football anyway this week, so what is the point of being good?'

    Tempting, but definitely not a good idea.
  11. Hello. I too have some rude Year 6 boys and this is what I do in case it helps as well as following the whole school behaviour rules:
    1.) For whole class target, so they feel pressured b the others to conform they get a marble every time they manage it. So for yours it could be that the whole class immediately begins what you have asked them to do without any fuss. Then when the chn have got all the marbles in the jar we have a 'party' - this could be DVD, afternoon of football, party food etc...) The silly ones soon get the message when the others moan at them for preventing them getting a marble.
    2.) We have golden time at our school. For the chn who have not had their names on the board all week for bad behaviour, they get special golden time which means a game with me if they want or football etc... The others all get their golden time but they only get a small selection of board games/drawing activities. The chn love playing games with me and it is a good reminder to give when you see one of the naughty ones about to play up.
    3.) This works a treat although it sounds lame. If they are messing around, go up to them quietly and say: "You have two choices: you either get on with your work now and enjoy your playtime later or you mess around and do your work during playtime. I will give you one minute take up time while you make your choice." Crucially you then walk away, give them a minute and go back. 9 and a half times out of ten they will be doing what you ask of them. I think it's to do with the fact they are making the decision, not just doing what they have been told to do.
    Good luck!
  12. Thank you so much for all your ideas and advice..it really is very much appreciated (It's feeling quite lonely at school at the moment).
    I so want these children to be ok (whether they like me or not) at the end of it all. I keep reminding myself that they are children, not adults, and that these are learned bad behaviours. It's not personal and they can't see (or choose not to) that there's a better way to get on at school, particularly with adults.
    Will incorporate a numbers of ideas posted on here, starting tomorrow. (Might try the glass of wine tonight though!)
  13. marlin

    marlin Star commenter Forum guide

    [​IMG] Enjoy!

  14. clear_air

    clear_air New commenter

    This is the most sensible, and easiest to do, I think!! I often do it, and comment 'good choice, good choice' very loudly when they conform. It's a bit like training dogs...!!![​IMG]
  15. I had a really similar problem in my first year of teaching, only with a core group of about 6 boys. I tried being the nice teacher and the strict teacher, all to no avail. At the end of my tether, I spoke to them all one to one about their interests. It transipred that they all liked football and all supported the same team. I am terrible at soccer and have no interest in it, but we made a deal- if they would behave, we would start a school soccer team and they would get to play in it. It worked and their behaviour was tranformed. I then started adding soccer into my lessons- data handling on goals scored etc. I didn't exclude the other kids- they were all ecstatic because they were finally able to learn without distractions. Over the course of the year, the group of boys made the most progress in the class. It seems extreme but it saved me a lot of stress and earned me some brownie points towards passing my NQT year! They are now at high school, but whenever they see me in town they still smile and say hello.
  16. ditwee

    ditwee New commenter


    We do this in Y1/2. Only the very immature opt to carry on with their misbehaviour. Only ever taken a Y5/6 class once - it was a class which regularly reduced supply teachers to tears. I got nowhere with them (one afternoon's supply only), but what was weird is it was a class of kids I knew well outside school,who respected me outside school and they were basically really nice good kids who were simply hitting their hormones very very early. And therefore just piggin awful in school. I truly (as parent of a 12 yr old with hormonal issues) think that giving them that minute or so to calm down and think is crucial. but also they really need an authoritative figure - male/female - doesn't matter. They don't need sympathy or empathy just clearly explained options. However, don't take my word for it; I wouldn't do Y6 for all the money they could offer me

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