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Ros Wilson or APP

Discussion in 'Primary' started by whodbeateacher, Oct 21, 2011.

  1. Our school has trialled APP in a couple of year groups but the head is not convinced. Other year groups use various methods to level writing including Ros Wilson, which they love at it is much more 'user friendly' than that wordy APP stuff.
    I need to make the school adopt one approach for consistency and was wondering what people use , what they prefer and why?
    I've read around a little and general feeling seems to be that APP is more generous in its levels than Ros Wilson, a problem in itself!
  2. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    I prefer the Criterion scale and it has been cross referenced to APP
  3. tafkam

    tafkam Occasional commenter

    That "wordy APP stuff" is actually quite important to a teacher's professional understanding of what they are looking for and aiming to teach in my opinion.
    Reducing assessment yet further to a simple tick-box approach leads to simple tick-box teaching... and it fails the students we're teaching.
    That's my two-penneth.
    A piece of paper cannot be generous. Only a teacher using it can.
  4. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    ... if the criteria in one system requires less from the writer than that of another then the result is a more generous level.

  5. That's my point, Msz. I understand the 'wordy' APP stuff but much of it would fail any plain English tes. Is it really necessary to be so technical and verbose when the same result could be achieved by using simpler terms? AF8 , level 2 for example talks of common single morpheme content/ lexical words. That's just some clever advisor somewhere in the government attempting to justify the job that he/she does by using big words to produce a document for busy teachers to use then pointing the finger accusingly when they ask what does it mean.
    Anyway, as MsZ has pointed out, my real query is the VALUE of Ros Wilson v APP - and, to repeat, it would appear from what others have said that you need to achieve less 'ticks' (and it still IS a tick system for APP, or at least best fit) to achieve a level 3a say, than you do with Ros Wilson - so which is 'right'?
  6. A lot of the staff at my school like the Ros Wilson criterion but we are supposed to be using APP. The APP for writing is not a 'best fit' as chn. must demonstrate capability in certain AFs (depending on level). The Ros Wilson criterion only uses one piece of writing whereas the APP uses lots so is more accurate. The Ros Wilson criterion is inconsistent as it is easier to get a 2C than a 1A due to the number of ticks needed. The APP is not really user friendly as you need to have a glossary to understand the terminology. I don't think it's a slur on teachers' professionalism if they can't instantly recall the meaning of common single morpheme content/lexical words. You can get child friendly APP grids on TES which means that older children can actually be involved in assessing their work and identifying next steps.
  7. Great question...here is my take...
    Ros Wilson:
    + Easy to understand, easy to use, breaks down into sublevels
    - Not that easy to link to 'next steps' or targets
    + progression and target setting is much easier to do, more 'official' than Ros Wilson
    - Yes, you need a degree in english to understand some of it (or have a look at http://primarytools.co.uk/pages/appsupport.html), doesn't sublevel, not as accessible to children/parents
    If you use APPs as they were released by the government, then go with Ros Wilson. If you choose more child friendly versions of APPs, then go with them.
  8. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    Personally I am happy to go with a slightly lower (cautious) level
  9. I don't think they spent huge amounts of money on APP I think it was cobbled together in a great hurry which is why it is so convoluted! Also it was never ever said to be statutory! When I was in school didn't used it and we were never slaves to the NLS so we were very happy to use the Ros Wilson scales in our four formal assessments a year.
  10. It wasn't made statutory but LA advisers were pushing it as the way forward (certainly in my authority). It must have cost quite a bit in the number of training days which were allocated. At one stage it seemed as though a member of staff was at APP training every other week! Slight exaggeration but certainly all staff had 3 days a year then whole staff training in addition and almost constant writing moderation meetings.
  11. We use Big Writing which I really don't like and find it does not work for me. I prefer to use the national curriculum levelled statements as a starting point. I have been using this www.lancsngfl.ac.uk - Assessment and Progression in Writing Skills the single sheet. I really liked their reading assessment materials so am try out the writing.
  12. I like this too. At the last external moderation meeting the head assessment guy said it would take 1hour per pupil (per subject per term). I think it's ridiculous to expect teachers to dedicate at least 90 hours a term to colouring in!!
  13. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    Amazing that 30 years ago all we did was note progress and points of future achievement to be reached. Does anbody actually ever read the assessment comments when planning lessons, other than do it for a 'fab' lesson of for heads scared of the 'wrath of ofsted'.When NC arrived we kept reams of assessment eveidence and a few years later it all went in a skip.unused,unread and unwanted.which suspect will eventually happen to all your evaluations!
    Good teachers dont really need all this extra layer of paper work.and parents only want to know what can they do next to help their child!
    Still if was to use it then id go for the one which makes it easier for you to progress a child onto the next area of learning...but we do spend to long on the minuta rather than the bigger picture.

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