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Rolled up pay.

Discussion in 'Supply teaching' started by Pennyforyourthoughts, Apr 16, 2011.

  1. Pennyforyourthoughts

    Pennyforyourthoughts Occasional commenter

    Anyone with an agency that uses the 'rolled up pay' scheme.... that is your holiday pay is already calculated in your weekly pay and not separate.
    Is this still legal, someone mentioned it was now illegal?
    What are the pitfalls of this system (could be they are getting away with not paying the holiday pay at all) (could be also disguising the true daily rate to make it look much more than it really is)
    Any comments welcome pros and cons.
    Also what to do about it if your agency is using this sytstem. Thanks

     
  2. Teaching Personnel use this 'rolled up pay' system and have done for as long as I've worked for them (over 6 years). I can't say it really bothers me - don't know aboout the legalities of it, I'm sure it does disguise what they are really paying me but since it £10 a day more than my other agency I think it sorts itself out.
    When my other agency started keeping back the holiday pay element of my pay a few years back, it did annoy me to start with but now I look forward to actually getting some pay during the half term breaks etc..

     
  3. BelleDuJour

    BelleDuJour Star commenter

    I'm with TP and do not get any pay during the holidays. Am I missing something?
     
  4. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    The 'rolled up' system isnot illegal and it means that you get the holiday pay up front.
    Previously, amployers of p/t workers didn't have to pay holiday money. When it became a legal requirement many agencies simply re-structered the existing daily rate and designated 10% of it as holiday pay. Some continued to pay you everything a week in arrears and others deducted the 10% and held it back until the worker requested it in a holiday period (or didn't request it if they were unaware of the arrangement!).
    Holding onto the money eases the agency's cashflow.
    LAs have always issued supply teachers with scale pay that included a holiday pay element up front. The full daily rate being annual scale point divided by 195 term-time days means that 25% of the daily/hourly rate is advance holiday pay. That's the same 3:1 pay: holiday pay thta contract teachers get as they are paid an equal amount every month for 39 work weeks and 13 holiday weeks.
    Work 195 days on full daily rate for an LA and you will earn the full annual to-scale pay, with the equivalent pay for the 13 weeks of school holidays rolled-up in your cummulative daily pay.
    Getting held-back holiday pay in the half terms etc (especially when the 10% used to be actual pay, not holiday pay) disenfranchises you from claiming JSA in some holiday periods too.
     
  5. Alas, not my local LEA, which didn't pay this way, used "hourly rate" instead.
     
  6. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    Hourly LA rate still includes a pro-rata portion of holiday pay. Just as you get a lesser daily rate, you also get a commensurate reduction in the holiday pay element.
     
  7. ITA76

    ITA76 New commenter

    Hi,

    Quick question - I have been working at the same school since mid september via an agency - am I entitled to holiday pay? I am finishing on friday as I am going on holiday and I am starting a contract in Jan.
     
  8. So, when I was on PAYE my daily rate showed up on payslips as two amounts. So, I did 1.5 days and my rate is £105 per day. My slip showed up Teaching daily rate 92.33 the Holiday pay 12.67. This adds up to my £105 daily rate meaning my holidays are included too and no work means no holiday pay.

    I am now invoicing as self employed and my daily rate is the same but no one has mentioned holiday pay.
     
  9. I read the legislation and to the best of my ability, it was clear that not only was it not allowed to be rolled up, you were not allowed to opt out. It had to be displayed separately.
    Of course some "selected" not to.
     
  10. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    Your daily rate with the agency may already include a holiday pay element.
    What does your contract say?
    You could ask the agency if your holiday pay has been included in your daily rate ( and paid up-front)or if they have kept back a portions of the fee they get from the school for your holiday pay ... to be requested by you in school holiday periods. If the latter, put in a request for all your accrued holiday pay to paid out before Xmas.
     
  11. ITA76

    ITA76 New commenter

    I have emailed the agency and am waiting for them to get back to me!!
     
  12. The Red Heron

    The Red Heron New commenter

    So is that paid to scale after 12 weeks registered with an agency even though you may have only worked a few days with them?
    Sounds too good to be true, my day rate is going to be over £180a day..who foots the bill for this against the £100 the agency normally pays?
     
  13. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    No.
    It's the proper teacher pay after 12 weeks of being sent out by the agency to the same hirer. The hirer might be one school or several schools belonging to the same LA or the same Academy Trust.
    The idea, I guess, is to limit the extra profit that the agency make from hiring out workers.
     
  14. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    Well, schools fund the correct pay point for the teachers that they employ on contract, so why not those who work for them on a temporary basis too?
    Here's an idea. Why don't LAs resurrect their own supply registers and schools can contact the registered teachers direct, cutting out the middlemen in the agencies?
    Academy trusts could do the same.
     
  15. Schools do fund contract teachers to scale but to pay an agency for a teacher to scale is always going to cost more. I did wonder myself whether the LEA supply lists would come back in favour as they will end up costing less in the long term.
     
  16. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    It's not necessarily more expensive for schools to use na agency as they don't have to fund the 13% employer contribution to the pension as with LA paid staff.
    If the schools pays the same amount to the agency to buy in the supply teacher as it costs them to employ a contracted teacher on the same pay point (a teacher who is in the TPS) the agency will generate enough money to pay the teacher properly, pay the employer contribution to NI and pocket the amount equivalent to the employer TPS payment as their profit margin.
    It would actually mean that they'd prefer to send more experienced teachers to placements as 13% of an M6 or UPS3 teacher's daily rate is more than 13% of an M1 pay rate!
     

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