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Discussion in 'Early Years' started by teachme88, Mar 15, 2012.

  1. Is it ''normal'' (at this time in the year) to still have a group of children who are finding it difficult to find rhyming words that match or finish a rhyming string?
    I'm working with this group often playing games such as finding the rhyming sets, rhyming bingo, reading rhyming stories and singing songs but they are still struggling. Does anyone else have any other rhyming activities? Thanks [​IMG]
  2. Check the Letters & Sounds document. Phase 1 (aspect 4 I think). My nursery children are doing rhyming at the moment and the majority can hear when two words sound the same. There's a lovely game in there called odd one out.
  3. I could send you a game of Rhyming Picture Pairs and Rhyming Pictures Happy Families.
    You could use a board game where children throw the dice after thinking of something to rhyme with a given picture. I have some board games that I can email.

  4. Thank you both for taking the time to reply, I'm sure the games would be really useful, I will email you now, Thanks again [​IMG]
  5. Leapyearbaby64

    Leapyearbaby64 New commenter

    It is normal for some children not to "get" rhyme. I've worked with Y1s and Y2s who don't get it either. It's one of the profile points that you are advised to tick anyway if the children are achieveing well in points 4-8.

  6. Thanks for your reassurance! : )
  7. Really?
    I've never heard that advice before.
    In my interpretation, it's not about "getting" rhyme, it's more about hearing when two words sound the same. For example, sock clock. If you look at the rhyming part of Letters & Sounds phase 1, then you see that the rhymes have to be very specific. One of the games, odd one out focuses on 3 pictures, 2 that rhyme and 1 that is completely random. For example, sock, clock, hat. I would suggest that if children aren't even hearing that then there is a strong possibility that they are not working well within points 4-8.
    I would say it is possible that some Y1 and Y2 don't "get" rhyme when working within poetry, but could you really say that they wouldn't manage the simple game I described?
    I think it's also important to mention that rhyme in EYFS always goes hand in hand with alliteration. So for example a child can hear that man and map start with the same sound in the same way that they can hear that mat and cat sound the same.
    Perhaps the Y1 and Y2 teachers who have got children in their class who aren't getting rhyme should plan some interventions around phase 1?

  8. You know, the more I think about this, the more annoyed it's making me.
    Who goes around giving advice to "tick anyway"????!!!!!!!!
    Not only are you doing a diservice to the child's next teacher, but you are doing a diservice to the child and ultimately to yourself. You are basically lying about a child's achievement. That's shameful!
    Perhaps those Y1 and Y2 teachers never even considered an intervention in rhyme because it was "ticked anyway" at the end of FS.
    [​IMG] This makes me so mad!!!
    My advice would never be to "tick anyway". Instead, I would advise earlier identification and planned interventions based upon specific need.
    Let's not bother teaching anything. Actually, what is the point of EYFS. Who wrote Letters & Sounds anyway?!
    How about we watch DVD's all day and just tick all 9 points on the profile.
    I do hope it wasn't your early years advisor who passed on this particular pearl of wisdom...
  9. Are you aware that there is no overwhelming research evidence which 'proves' that learning to hear rhyme is a necessary pre-reading skill.
    Perhaps the person who advised 'just tick the box' felt that it was better to move on to teaching something more purposeful...

    Well the people who wrote the actual teaching reading 'phases' weren't the people who wrote the playing about with sounds phase. Perhaps they wouldn't have placed a great deal of emphasis on 'rhyme' if they had written the lot...
  10. What made me cross is the belief that it's OK to tick a box saying that a child has a achieved something when they haven't.
    I think that your second quote from my post is taken out of context. I was mid-rant and was making a sarcastic comment about ignoring recognised and recommended publications.
    And whilst I am fully aware that hearing rhyme is not a necessary pre-reading skill, I believe that hearing similarities between words, be they rhyming or alliterative, IS an important skill and one that we should be giving children plenty of opportunities to experience.
    Ticking boxes isn't what I came into teaching for. However, it is how we show that our teaching has had an impact in terms of paperwork, tracking, etc. If it's OK to tick a box for the sake of ticking a box when a child hasn't achieved something that we haven't placed value on, where does it stop?
    It's unprofessional and I'm shocked that it is considered OK to do this.
  11. I know you were. The thing is, just because it is published by the govt. there's no guarantee that it is 'sound'. Look at the Searchlights Strategy.... Sometimes these things are just written by 'experts' with a particular belief with no foundation in research evidence.
    Anyway, not being able to recognise rhyme is not going to blight a child's life.
  12. Leapyearbaby64

    Leapyearbaby64 New commenter

    I got this advice last summer which was my first full year working with EYFS (I'd had a couple of years in KS1). I had a child who was acheiveing well within scale points 4-8 in this area of learning, but who did not understand rhyme. We use Eye-profile, so needed a password to "unlock" the ability to score 4-8 if 1, 2 or 3 have not been achieved. This has to be done via the EY consultant. I was directed to a publication (sorry, wouldn't know where to start looking for it ... but DfES) that said, effectively, if a child is working securely within 4-8, then to score that point - there was no need for the special password in that case.
  13. onthewayhome
    I don't think that ticking this box is unprofessional. The OP knows her child. It is yet another example that shows that it is the assessment system that is wrong - children are not all the same yet we have a system that expects us to categorise them into 117 boxes. Is that all they are? I think it would have been more unprofessional to not allocate points 4 -7 just because the child can't recognise rhyme (yet). If the system was focussed more on what children can do rather than boxes that say what they can do, the world would be a much better place. If it had been me I would have allocated the point and inserted a 'note' to explain why.
  14. Interesting. I've noticed a strong link between children who can't segment or blend (and in some cases can't give initial sounds of words orally) and a lack of understanding/awareness of rhyme in year 1. The only children that couldn't hear/generate rhymes were those who were only just beginning to segment and blend. Though all four learnt to recognise rhyme within about a week of a strong focus on rhyme both in class and in a small group (as well as other phonic work). So - partly developmental and partly what they've been taught. But they had definitely begun to hit points 4,5,6 and 7 before they got rhyme.
    Some of my daughter's earliest 'words' were the rimes for 'Miss Polly had a dolly' when she was about two - we went to a mums' and toddlers' group, and she adored the song, and loved to join in with 'ick, ick' 'ag, ag' etc.
  15. Likewise there seems to be a group of children in nursery who cannot tune into rhyme or into initial sounds. They seem to be children who have not been exposed to rhyme and word play. These children often listen attentively to stories and show good understanding of vocabulary. One almost feels that they have 'missed the boat' on rhyme and alliteration because they have not had the right experiences while acquiring language. Weirdly, before having the understanding to pick up the 'plots' of rhymes such as 'Miss Polly had a Dolly' they might be more open to picking up the rhymes and patterns of sounds. Perhaps righting this deficit at school age is about nonsense rhyming, funny rhyming strings, making up nonsense rhymes for children's names, and alliterative additions to children's names, where the joke is about the sounds used rather than the meaning.... Just a thought. There is a similarity after all between rhyme and baby babble (which delights in repetition). Tuned in parents repeat babble back to their babies, which is a super example of meeting children at their point in development rather than trying to push something further along the line of development in the hope of growing a genius. Unfortunately, when schools' preoccupation with standards, standards, standards, lead to the infiltration of a standards agenda into early years, respect for children's development can go out of the window.
  16. One of the big difficulties for many children is probably the fact that many words which rhyme don't look the same: send friend, zoo through, blue shoe.
    I did not begin to learn English until 14 and the visual differences made it very hard for me to take to English poetry. In my case this was due to my previous experience, but I think it might confuse many English-speaking children too.
    They start with 'cat sat, man ran, end send',
    but then things go more and more pear shaped.

  17. Leapyearbaby64

    Leapyearbaby64 New commenter

    This has nothing whatsoever to do with spelling. We are talking children that most likely do not read yet - the children just can't HEAR the rhyme or predict a rhyme, or extend a rhyming string.
  18. Really?
    The OP said
    "I'm working with this group often playing games such as finding the rhyming sets, rhyming bingo, reading rhyming stories."

  19. Perhaps it was the OP who was reading the stories, masha.
    Which still has nothing to do with spelling...
  20. <font face="Calibri">Just to reiterate I&rsquo;m not expecting the children to read or write these words. The rhyming sets are pictures or objects, the rhyming bingo is similar (none of these have words printed on) and it is me who is reading the stories and asking them to finish the rhyming string. </font><font face="Calibri">Thanks for everyone&rsquo;s input, I&rsquo;m glad it has sparked some interest.</font>

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