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Reviews on new iPGCE courses please

Discussion in 'Teaching abroad' started by Morris1976, Jun 26, 2019.

  1. krakowiak6

    krakowiak6 New commenter

    But no Chinese teachers have a PGCE as they don't require teacher training after a degree in China to get a job as a teacher.
     
  2. kemevez

    kemevez Occasional commenter

    Hogwash
     
    dumbbells66 likes this.
  3. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    Chinese Nationals study an Educational Degree to qualify as a teacher and I know several who are qualified teachers in UK/US/Australia. China takes its teaching qualifications very seriously in state sector.
     
  4. taiyah

    taiyah Occasional commenter

    @krakowiak6 out of curiosity, why would you think Chinese teachers won't ever have a PGCE equivalent? february31st is spot on and you'll be surprised on how many Chinese students (and their families) invest in high overseas university fees and get a B Ed. Reputable university such as Bristol Uni alone have had a huge jump in their enrollments in the last 5 years. Whilst closer destinations such as Australia has for decades, always have a good % of Chinese uni students completing a B of Ed. Certainly no Mickey Mouse routes for these well qualified Chinese teachers unlike some in the international sector.
     
  5. grdwdgrrrl

    grdwdgrrrl Occasional commenter

    Back a hundred years ago or so they equivalent of an online degree was done by correspondence. I think the student makes what they can of the education that is offered whether it’s in a classroom or not. I know plenty of people who went to university but never went to class yet passed all their exams and wrote the papers and then graduated. What’s the difference?
    I’ve seen the iPGCE from Sunderland in action. It depends on the student how well it turns out, like any other degree.
     
    Bill8899 likes this.
  6. grdwdgrrrl

    grdwdgrrrl Occasional commenter

    Whichever one has the more rigor for the practical element.
     
  7. grdwdgrrrl

    grdwdgrrrl Occasional commenter

    I sent you a PM
     
  8. mikemcdonald25

    mikemcdonald25 Occasional commenter

    I have mentored several teachers over the years for the Sunderland iPGCE and imo opinion it is a very good course. The students have to keep an up to date portfolio and upload all the material to Sunderland. The portfolio includes: schemes of work and lesson plans, they also have to upload the resources they are using as well as exemplars of the students work. They also have to complete a range of academic assignments which are also uploaded to Sunderland. One of my roles was to check their online portfolio on a regular basis but mainly to observe and advise on their teaching. Whilst I did this in general over the whole year there were also two formal six week teaching practices for which they had to keep a log and respond to my suggestions/crticisms. During these two teaching practices we were visited by a team from Sunderland.

    While talking to the two visiting lectures I asked them how the iPGCE compared to the PGCE in the UK and they said; 'it is exactly the same'.

    I am not and have never been a fan of the changes to teacher training first espoused by La Thatcher and implemented by her slimy Education Secretary, Kenneth Baker (remember the Mum's Army idea) and carried on by subsequent Tory and Tory lite governments but the Sunderland iPGCE is no better or worse imo on what is currently offered in the UK.
     
    Bill8899 and grdwdgrrrl like this.
  9. T0nyGT

    T0nyGT Lead commenter

    I think it's important to keep some perspective when talking about teaching as a profession. It's not medicine, nor is it aeronautical engineering. It's not like someone with a PGCE is automatically going to be streets ahead of someone with an online qualification which contains a placement component (I wouldn't touch one without a physical placement though). There isn't the technical knowledge required that there is with other professions which would mean you wouldn't be able to physically perform your duties without proper training. You could stick a physicist in front of a physics class with varying degrees of success but you couldn't with an unqualified doctor. I think after 5 years in the classroom, the effects of your PGCE are dissipated very much as your classroom experience is having more of an effect. The same can't be said for medicine, as your training is the underpinning of your woke profession.

    Everyone who has been teaching for long enough has met an amazing unqualified teacher and an equally awful teacher with a PGCE from a top university. It's not the norm, but personality, empathy, passion and subject knowledge are the key to successful teaching and none of these come from a PGCE.
     
  10. grdwdgrrrl

    grdwdgrrrl Occasional commenter

    Well put. Thank you. Some of us didn’t have the option to study in the UK because we were over seas with family. I am very passionate about teaching and very experienced in my specialty. I am grateful that there was an online option.
     
    Bill8899 likes this.
  11. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    Spoken by someone who doesn't know what they are taking about! Where do you think the next generation of doctors and engineers come from, my classroom for a start.
     
  12. taiyah

    taiyah Occasional commenter

    Nothing the profession can do about it. iPGCE is here. The only saving grace are countries are waking up to this alternative and tightening the requirements for residential working visas such as actual and reputable degrees must meet the subject you are teaching.

    Well put february31st. Having first hand experience with the "better one" from Sunderland, online or face to face iPGCE dumbs down the profession. If teachers such as TonyGT are happy to go to doctors, surgeons, dentists and get on a plane with pilots with online qualifications then happy to accept thier views on the iPGCE. But till then call it as it is, it is nothing but a cash injection to the not so highly ranked universities. NZ, Aus, US, Canada and even UK schools don't want a bar of any iPGCE "qualifications". Whatever nationality the students are, they, along with thier hard working fee paying parents should be held on the same set of standards and expectations.

    When schools start running workshops educating parents about iPGCE then perhaps those who really value the profession may start accepting them. Can you imagine, "This is teacher X, they are SO passionate about your children's education. But they don't actually have any degrees in education nor in the subject teacher X is teaching. A passionate, driven teacher and really care about your kid's education."............. But couldn't be bothered, for whatever reason, getting the qualifications their own country sets as a standard.
     
  13. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    Im sorry but i think this is all a pile of rubbish. The worse teacher i have ever seen was a PGCE teacher, and they had a doctorate from Oxford too. A good teacher isnt "made" by their degree, a good teacher is a good teacher. Doing the "full" PGCE will not automatically make you a better teacher than anyone else that has done it a different way.
     
    grdwdgrrrl, T0nyGT and Bill8899 like this.
  14. T0nyGT

    T0nyGT Lead commenter

    You have an extremely bloated sense of self improtance if you think a surgeon is on the same level as a teacher. Putting them on the same level ridicules the profession.

    I'm not saying that a teacher with a PGCE would not have some level of understanding higher than one with a PGCEi in the first year. I'm saying that after a few years the qualifications wouldn't be responsible for any difference in the quality of the teacher. It would all be down to what they learned in the classroom and natural aptitude and personality.

    Your PGCE didn't make you a good teacher. It gave you a set of skills to use in the job to further develop. No one would have died if you had gone in to the classroom from an online course, and theres absolutely no guarantee that you'd be better than the PGCE guy after a year.
     
    grdwdgrrrl, Bill8899 and dumbbells66 like this.
  15. T0nyGT

    T0nyGT Lead commenter

    Haha. My goodness
     
    Mr_Frosty and Bill8899 like this.
  16. kemevez

    kemevez Occasional commenter

    I did a PGCE. Some of it was “theory” which was essentially “dont smile ‘til Christmas” as the best advice that prospective teachers could be given by experienced ex-teachers. The rest of it was practice and that was pretty useful. In a world where people start out teaching in a country that isn’t the UK (or another where-you-was-born country), cover far more theory and do just as much practice - why would you denigrate that experience as if it were less valuable?
     
    Bill8899 likes this.
  17. taiyah

    taiyah Occasional commenter

    @TonyGT when you and your school start telling parents, in particular the parents who have A-level/DP children, about the reality of iPGCE then perhaps your point is valid.

    "Here's teacher X, Y, and Z thier teaching qualification is not nor will it ever be recognized in any western countries. Yes, even the UK where they hail from. But hey, sign up and give us your £15-20,000 a year.."

    As for your argument re: bad and incompetent apples. Not sure where you've been but no profession is immune to this. At least they are ALL qualified and are recognized by their professional boards.

    What you lack and seriously fail to understand is this. Why is OK for the students (and thier fee parents) of the international circuit to get teachers who are not qualified professionals in their home country? The same "professionals" who have the audacity to demand top $/£ packages.
     
  18. grdwdgrrrl

    grdwdgrrrl Occasional commenter

    Trained in their home country doesn’t give every teacher the same opportunity when there’s discrimination against them working internationally. One example is the Philippines. Also, I am American but wanted to teach in a British school since my husband was. That’s not my home country curriculum and I couldn’t leave my young family in China to spend a couple years in England.
    Another point is that in some countries (China to be specific) your B.Ed doesn’t count as a qualification for your work visa. When I did my iPGCE, there were many teachers who had to get it in order to get their work visas although they had B.Ed degrees and many years experience teaching. Does that diminish their qualifications or experience in the eyes of the parents?
    Also, we teachers gain so much extra training and support throughout our careers. We don’t just get a teaching qualification and then we’re on our own. There isn’t a month that goes by that I’m not doing a course, face to face or online, to upskill myself. In addition, I get so much input from colleagues when we do peer obs etc. I also have my regular teaching observations from my line manager and other superiors.
    I guess I just don’t understand the rigid mindset. Online learning is growing rapidly. One of my best friends, who is American, lives in London and works for Futurelearn. It’s an amazing platform for learning. My husband just finished a Maths course offered online by MIT. We are supposed to be lifelong learners. So many changes can occur in a school. They could change the curriculum from IB to A level, from Nat Curriculum to include IPC or something else. How does the PGCE train you for those eventualities? I had to do extra training for the IPC. The IB has specific training as well. Each school has their spin on planning and delivering lessons. My current school has had many changes in these areas and we all have to get training to keep up.
    In general, no matter what or where you learn, you get what you put into it. Do we tell our students that the only learning they get is from the classroom? I think not. I hope not!
     
    T0nyGT, Bill8899 and dumbbells66 like this.
  19. Bill8899

    Bill8899 New commenter

    The University of Nottingham offers an iPGCE with cohorts in many other countries. It’s not the cheapest at £4,110, but there may be a cohort near you.

    https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/education/study/pgcei/structure.aspx

    https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/education/study/pgcei/venues/index.aspx

    I’m not sure if it’s possible to apply for their September 2019 course, but I thought I’d post this anyway.

    The iPGCE is a level 7 qualification.

    https://www.gov.uk/what-different-qualification-levels-mean/list-of-qualification-levels

    The iPGCE program is based on the traditional PGCE. It is intended for international teachers. You know, teachers who are not teaching in the UK and thus cannot complete a PGCE.
     
    JamesBondGibbon likes this.
  20. T0nyGT

    T0nyGT Lead commenter

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