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Residential trip & directed time?

Discussion in 'Pay and conditions' started by LittleMissCurious, Jul 13, 2010.

  1. It is expected that the teachers of the classes going on our school's weekend residential trip will attend with their classes. None of the teachers concerned were asked if they wished to go, although non-teaching staff who are going were. Does this time count towards directed time? Does all day Saturday count as 24 hours directed time?
  2. It probably should if it's not voluntary, but it won't. You are better off going down the "it's my mother's birthday" route if you want to avoid going. Otherwise decide if it's worth fighting, and if not, just use it as another excuse to moan about your management, sounds like they deserve it.
  3. I'm actually not bothered about going, but it will take me well over my directed hours for the year, having kept a record of them for this year! As I said, I wasn't asked to go, I was told that I was going so it's definitely not voluntary!
  4. DaisysLot

    DaisysLot Senior commenter

    You cannot be directed to work over a weekend, or undertake residential work - assuming you are in an LEA school, not the private sector.... The union line is that if you are 'asked' or willing you should be paid - though this is unlikely, and the time is unlikely to count towards your 1265 hours a year, especially as it will not fall on the 195 days on which you can be directed.
  5. rooney1

    rooney1 Occasional commenter

    At my school, teachers who go on residential trips over a weekend are given a day off in lieu. They can take this when they like. I think it would be difficult to get enough people to go otherwise. They are voluntary. I won't go unless I can have a room to myself - I certainly don't want to share a room with someone I work with.
  6. Sounds like my school is taking the p1$$ then - no extra pay and certainly no time off in lieu, and not, by the sound of it, part of our directed hours as it's a weekend....
  7. DaisysLot

    DaisysLot Senior commenter

    And do remember the phrase 'work life balance' - How, if a school can direct you 24/7 could you ever sustain such a thing? Ditch kids or responsibilities.... sustain no interests or hobby commitments? Nonsense.
  8. tafkam

    tafkam Occasional commenter

    My personal view is thus:
    People who volunteer to attend residentials should expect it to be exactly that - a voluntary activity which attracts no extra pay or time in lieu.
    People who have to be persuaded to volunteer may be offered some sort of benefit, such as that outlined about - particularly where it encroaches upon a weekend.
    People who do not volunteer, don't go.
    People who are told they are going on residentials should point out that they would like to be asked.
  9. I pretty much agree.
    I would say that all staff who go should be treated equitably in terms of compensation such as days off in leiu etc. whether they happily volunteered, or were persuaded to.
    I have to say that I do find the attitude of some staff in not wanting to take part in residential activities surprising. It has always, seemed to me to be part of the teacher's role, and one which I still very much enjoy. It also seems to me pretty petty when people start asking about Directed Time etc in connection with these activities.
    Just my Opinion.
  10. Morninglover

    Morninglover Lead commenter

    It isn't part of our role in the state sector (private schools are different), and whilst I have gone on residential trips in the past (including this term) it wouldn't always be convenient/possible because of my personal circumstances. Nor would I choose to go on some residentials (for example I wouldn't go camping, if that were ever suggested). I would expect o be asked, and would react very negatively if it were assumed I would go.
  11. coppull

    coppull New commenter

    Could I remind everybody.It is the Law that you do not have to work at Weekends Page 129 paragraph 74.2 STPCD 2009. Download it from the Internet.
    If they want people to work at weekends. It is double your hourly rate of pay. If it is good enough for the Headteacher to receive overtime payments in London ,then it is good enough for anybody being directed to go away for a Weekend. Ask SMT at the school are they all on extra payments.[​IMG]
  12. I am perfectly happy to take day trips during my working day, but resent being told that I am taking children away for a weekend without it counting towards my directed time or any kind of "pay back" - it isn't my choice that I work a weekend, and it certainly isn't part of my contract!
  13. phlogiston

    phlogiston Star commenter

    It depends on the relationships within the school, who plans the activity and other commitments outside school, remembering that this over a weekend, not instead of normal school.
    What does a (maybe single) parent do?
    When does the teacher get time to plan and mark for the upcoming week?
    When does the teacher get time to do things like laundry and grocery shopping that often form part of the weekend routine?
    When does the teacher get time to switch off so they are reinvigorated for Monday morning?
    I have done several residential trips, they have been good. They have also had a big personal cost in terms of all of the above. If the trip seems to be imposed or expected by a management that doesn't seek to discuss or even consider issues like the above, it's not surprising that people ask questions.
    Best wishes,
  14. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    There are al sorts of circumstances where a teacher might be unable to even consider volunteering for a weekend or other residential.
    Some teachers are single parents with no family around to care for the children overnight. Other teachers have a second job, working certain evenings or weekends.
    When are you supposed to finalise your planning for the following teaching week when you are away looking after other people's children 24 hours per day?

  15. lardylady

    lardylady Star commenter

    Where I work, Y5 and 6 have a 5 day Mon-Fri residential every other year, and it isn't assumed that the teachers of those classes will go. The Head asks them initially, and if they don't want to go, then the Head throws it open to other teachers. Last year, the Y3 teacher went with the Y6 class, while the Y6 teacher (whose mother was very ill in hospital) stayed in school and taught Y3.
  16. cleobud

    cleobud New commenter

    I agree with Tom Clancy. I am surprised that teachers would expect a day off in lieu. In my first two years of teaching in 1990-1 I went on 2 residentials - I was asked to go both times and found it good experience and good for my cv. If teachers are concerned about PPA time then surely the week of the residential probably won't involve marking or planning so in theory PPA time the previous week could be spent planning for the week they return.We are, after all, in a profession and I feel we lose credibility if we go on about 'directed time'. We should just get on with the job.
    Of course if someone does not want to go/is unable to go they should not be made to.
  17. cleobud

    cleobud New commenter

    Just to say, the above is just my opinion - I started teaching before there was PPA time or TA support. In my experience, SOME young teachers are much more 'work to rule' than thinking of the job as a profession.
    Just my view...
  18. You are missing the point, KFrances. The trip is at a weekend, not through the week. Even through the week though, people should be asked, not told, to go. What if you have child/pet/family commitments? I would have to put my dog in kennels, would school pay for that?
  19. It wasn't that I was concerned about missing PPA - I taught a full week before the residential, including a day of "cover" on the Friday, as the trip began Friday morning, and one teacher's class was left without cover. I then spent all weekend (early Saturday to late Sunday) away from home with my class.... using my own car and fuel to boot! I wasn't asked if I'd like to go; it was expected that I would, and thatI would cover and drive over on the Saturday/
  20. cleobud

    cleobud New commenter

    Apologies LittleMissCurious for not reading the previous posts properly, completely agree with you if it was over a weekend.

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