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Remembering Hiroshima

Discussion in 'Personal' started by coffeekid, Aug 6, 2020.

  1. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    I thought you had some evidence?

    Have you left it somewhere?
     
    alex_teccy and Oscillatingass like this.
  2. red_observer

    red_observer Star commenter

    I didnt realise there was a time limit. Try to be patient. Please.
     
  3. colacao17

    colacao17 Lead commenter

    It has been argued that the Germans could not have been defeated without the Russians.

    Maybe the US wanted to balance things out (or more likely, wanted to go one better) and so needed to defeat japan in spectacular, shock-and-awe style.

    Maybe with conventional warfare they wouldn't have been able to win (Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan)
     
  4. red_observer

    red_observer Star commenter

    Read argues that the figures arrested from the Purges totals around 790,000. Not all were shot or sent to a Gulag. These figures of multi millions are just not credible. What is credible is that Stalin was a brutal dictator living at a brutal time. There are no firm figures. Many perished in Gulags and therefore the figure runs into the low millions for sure. I am not a Stalinist or a Stalin supporter but the fixtures Conquest and Davies use are now highly debatable.
     
  5. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    Communism and its close derivatives have all failed the people they were supposed to serve.
     
  6. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    The weapon the Germans used to greatest effect was the Luftwaffe. We defeated the Luftwaffe in 1940/41. We showed the rest of the world how to stop Germany in the air. After that the result became inevitable.
     
    alex_teccy likes this.
  7. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    So you blagging it then?

    Are most of your posts like that?

    There is a wealth of evidence and research that details a huge number of deaths, far in excess of your claim of one million, which you also claimed to be evidenced.

    And now you're going to try and tough it out.

    Just admit you were wrong and we can all move on.
     
    Oscillatingass and alex_teccy like this.
  8. red_observer

    red_observer Star commenter

     
  9. red_observer

    red_observer Star commenter

    It’s not the high millions as there is no proof. It’s all guess work. I don’t know exactly neither do you. There is no wealth of evidence. Of course it’s more than the 1m figure.Move on.
     
  10. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    There is a wealth of evidence. I referred to a fraction of it. Of course there can be no specificity, but all expert opinion points to numbers far in excess of one million.

    Why did you say you had evidence for one million, when you hadn't? Where did you even get the idea it was that low?
     
  11. Katzenjammer

    Katzenjammer Senior commenter

    There is a very interesting article by Max Hastings in today's Times which adds some pertinent observations on this topic, with particular reference to the attitude of the rank and file in the "forgotten armies" in the Burma campaign. What has become clear [almost the only thing that has] throughout this thread is that the choice to use the atomic bombs was a "devil's alternative" in which the adoption of either option would cause enormous loss of llfe. That the bombing was a dreadful but necessary thing to do has here been very well argued by Scintillant. Someone else pointed out too it brought about an unintended but beneficial consequence - it has remained an object lesson in what MAD would look like, with the result that neither the US nor the USSR ever dared to call the brinkmanship bluff and lay waste the whole world in the process.
     
  12. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    If you were to read about the planning of the allies to invade Japan you can possibly see why they chose the Nuclear option, Estimates vary but the Americans it seems were to lose up to a million men invading the islands.
    Read it for yourself, especially section 4 on casualties
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall
     
    EmanuelShadrack and artboyusa like this.
  13. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Irrespective of an invasion of Japan, a third bomb was prepped to be dropped in Japan. Tens of thousands more would have died. Japan has shown itself capable of still launching offensives like West Hunan. In fact Japanese forces in China didn't surrender until September 9th 1945.

    Taking into account resistance in the Japanese hierarchy, as shown in the attempted anti-surrender coup of the Kyujo incident... Yes, dropping the bomb was a necessary act to shorten an inhuman war.
     
  14. alex_teccy

    alex_teccy Star commenter

    Churchill did not cause the Bengal famine.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943
    Price inflation, war shortages, corruption, cyclones, crop diseases. As with all disasters a range of factors happen at once, whereas each on its own would not have had the same effect.

    The evidence that Stalin killed many millions is overwhelming, as Scintillant has provided

    This lack of knowledge from a teacher is worrying. Maybe someone should start a thread about that.
     
    lanokia and artboyusa like this.
  15. red_observer

    red_observer Star commenter

    Chris Read Professor of History no less. And try to lower your tone please.
     
  16. red_observer

    red_observer Star commenter

    I just can’t accept that sorry. But I get what you say.
     
  17. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    That's a guy's name. Not "evidence".

    It's not even a reference.

    And how does that that trump the large pile of evidence pointing very decidedly in the opposite direction?
     
    Oscillatingass and alex_teccy like this.
  18. red_observer

    red_observer Star commenter

    I’ve read his book.
     
  19. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    Red there are people on here (probably) whose Fathers, uncles, grandparents fought the Japanese. War is viscous and nasty but the Japs took it to another level, they got what they richly deserved and those bombs must have saved many of our armed forces lives. For that reason I believe the two nuclear weapons used were fully justified.
     
    peter12171 and alex_teccy like this.
  20. Katzenjammer

    Katzenjammer Senior commenter

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