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Discussion in 'Personal' started by coffeekid, Aug 6, 2020.
You should meet up with holocaust deniers for some tips.
I asked first though as so do i. If you read Chris Reads recent book in Stalin he says it’s around that.
Nagasaki 75 years ago today.
In his book, “Unnatural Deaths in the U.S.S.R.: 1928-1954,” I.G. Dyadkin estimated that the USSR suffered 56 to 62 million "unnatural deaths" during that period, with 34 to 49 million directly linked to Stalin.
In “Europe A History,” British historian Norman Davies counted 50 million killed between 1924-53, excluding wartime casualties.
Alexander Nikolaevich Yakovlev, a Soviet politician and historian, estimated 35 million deaths.
Even some who have put out estimates based on research admit their calculations may be inadequate.
In his acclaimed book “The Great Terror: Stalin’s Purge of the Thirties,” Anglo-American historian Robert Conquest said: “We get a figure of 20 million dead [under Stalin], which is almost certainly too low and might require an increase of 50 percent or so.”
Modern data for the whole of Stalin's rule was summarized by Timothy Snyder, who concluded that Stalinism caused six million direct deaths and nine million in total, including the deaths from deportation, hunger and Gulag deaths.
Several scholars, among them Stalin biographer Simon Sebag Montefiore, Soviet/Russian historian Dmitri Volkogonov, and the director of Yale's "Annals of Communism" series Jonathan Brent, put the death toll from Stalin at about 20 million.
Robert Conquest. The Great Terror. NY Macmillan, 1968 p. 533 (20 million)
[[Anton Antonov-Ovseyenko],] The Time of Stalin, NY Harper & Row 1981. p.126 (30-40 million)
Elliot, Gill. Twentieth Century Book of the Dead. Penguin Press 1972. pp. 223-24(20 million)
Number of deaths of people by Stalinism, 1924—1953 (*excluding killings outside of Soviet borders)
Dekulakization 530,000–600,000 
Great Purge 777,975–1,200,000 
Gulag 1,500,000–1,713,000 
Soviet deportations 450,000–566,000 
Katyn massacre 22,000 
Holodomor 2,500,000–4,000,000 
Whichever way you slice it, a claim of one million is ludicrous.
Kendo Nagasaki is 78
I will get back to you to give you the answer you deserve.
I would have made Spain a republic after the War of the Spanish Succession.
One example and you make a seeping generalisation?
How can you find the anniversary of a tragic event to post a purile picture like that? Tasteless.
God forbid anyone should ever do that on this forum!
No, go to the home page and help yourself.
Well said Spoofer. I am not a pacifist and of course understood that the only way to stop the Nazi atrocities was with an invasion of Europe and that meant young men’s lives. My mum’s much loved cousin was in bomber command and died on a return attack on Berlin. Some of the intensity of the bombing on German cities is indeed morally questionable though. However, the experiment on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was, in my view, totally unnecessary barbarism and morally repugnant. An excuse to experiment with a new weapon. The totally indiscriminate nature made it particularly heinous.
Interesting to see Bernard Williams mentioned- a hero philosopher from my Uni days studying Moral Philosophy. Dragging up memories from 30 odd years ago I do recall the arguments in favour of “the end justifying the means” but when the means is so repugnant how can you justify it?
Thank you Spoofer for posting. I don’t always agree with you but on this you and I clearly have a similar view of ethics.
The Japanese never stopped the suffering of some of my relatives in the concentration camps working on their railway line, After the war the hate for the japs was huge so in those days many folks thought they got what they deserved. Obviously some did not!
Do we have to say that 4 letter word?
I was going to do that one but I got hung up preventing the Second Schleswig War. "Oy Bismarck!" I said. "Not you again. Leave it!"
Yes, that's me.
It's puerile, by the way.
Says it all