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Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by lescargot, Apr 3, 2011.

  1. lescargot

    lescargot Occasional commenter

    I think its great! These people should be representing their members and maybe its time they were reminded of it!
  2. airy - beware what you wish for is all I can say. I fully expect that the upcoming ballot will be 'better attended' and that supply teachers will find out who their friends aren't.
    I doubt that many will want to change unions either - like many of my colleagues, I suspect that a large percentage only join a union for the legal protection that membership affords them.
  3. Sorry, but if democratic processes are to work then everybody needs to participate. If 50% of our colleagues truly care so little about their own professional status it's heartbreaking, but doesn't mean that those of us who do care have a right to ignore their opinions. I've said it before and I'll say it again - devaluing the work of a supply teacher devalues all our professionalism and plays into the hands of those who want to see unqualified staff in front of classes. After all if someone else is setting and marking work, why do we need teachers on short term supply at all?
  4. airy - I do agree with you. All I'm saying is that I suspect that the majority actually don't care about the plight of supply teachers - apparently in line with EIS thinking.
    I haven't as yet looked fully at the EIS website, but I suspect that it wont be the vehicle I thought it could be to highlight to everyone the full impact of these proposals on supply teachers. We can only hope that the 57% who voted to reject stand firm and reject again.
  5. socrates82

    socrates82 Occasional commenter

    The dogs on the street know that the change from eight days to five days will make no difference at all. Councils will simply hire for shorter periods of time. Supply teachers are TEACHERS TOO and they have the right to be paid at the RATE DUE TO THEM for EVERY day they work. It's a basic employment right and nothing less is acceptable.
  6. lescargot

    lescargot Occasional commenter

    If they did not vote we cannot draw conclusions about their opinions.
  7. lescargot

    lescargot Occasional commenter

    Well, imho if you reject the 'new' proposals, you are rejecting the EIS. Many colleagues will be jumping ship after this ballot.
  8. kibosh

    kibosh Star commenter

    It's bad.
    It's cruel.
    It's divisive.
    It's discriminatory.
    It's life shattering.
    It's career ending.
    It's callous.
    It's too focussed (on supply teachers)
    It's wasteful
    It's over the top
  9. I am disappointed that the effort being put in by the EIS to try and paint the offer as some kind of good deal was not matched in the lead up to the initial ballot where the EIS recommended that offer be rejected but did not produce significant material to supplement the recommendation.

    I do not presently hold any post within the EIS, but when I was on EIS Council I often argued there were alternatives to accepting the unacceptable,

    I believe there are alternatives to accepting what is a de facto 2 year salary cut all round with extra cuts for temporary/supply staff which need not involve strike action. As a starter there could and should be serious publicity on a par with the advert taken put out by COSLA before the first ballot to get our message across. That should be followed up by involving the EIS membership in a significant protest campaign along with highly focussed action against new initiatives. This is not rocket science. Its what we did in the past and is sustainable.
  10. I've been trying on to log and post a comment or two on the REJECT the proposals website for the past week. Without success.

    I have posted my name on these boards in the past and as many posters know I am a former EIS Local Association Secretary, and I hope in the future I will be be able to hold office in the EIS again.

    2 Points:

    - I urge everybody to vote REJECT. (The proposals are beyond outrageous)
    - I urge all EIS members to stay with the EIS.

    If the vote goes for REJECT as I hope it will then we will need to stand together for what comes next.

    Ian McCrone
  11. I would like to think that EIS will take the right action in the end, as I would like to be able to have faith in them again. They have helped me a lot in the past, but this whole thing is an embarrassment.
    At the moment I'm glad I didn't apply to become a representative last year, as I would be ashamed to be one at this time. I told Ronnie Smith all this in my email to him, for which I've had no reply.
    I do sincerely hope they do the right thing following another overwhelming reject vote (rather presumptious of me perhaps?), so that I may once again be grateful for their services as a union.
  12. I voted 'no' in the last ballot and absolutely intend to vote 'reject' again. These proposals would really hit me hard and I haven't worked hard all these years to go back to point 1 on the salary scale.
    However, I have spoken to quite a few permanent teachers over the last few days and all of them seem to think that the worst is over! Now that the sick pay has been taken off the table and supply will only be affected by the 5 days rather than 8, they seem to think its an okay deal and plan to vote to accept.
    This is my fear and frustration. Many permanent teachers I know seem to think that just because supply teachers will get their contract after 5 days, that's acceptable.
    I have posted a lot on these threads about my own personal circumstances. I have my feet in both camps - permanent and supply - and not through choice either. However, needs must! It irritates me when I hear this 'I'm alright Jack' attitude from permanent teachers (and I used to be full-time permanent - before anyone thinks I'm just having a dig for the sake of it). As a parent, I'm horrified by the prospect of my child's class being covered by a different supply teacher every 4 days should his class teacher go off sick or that his class will be split for days on end. I'm beginning to see the latter happening now.
    Its obvious to me that any attack on our terms and conditions is unacceptable but I have this sinking feeling that the EIS will get their 'yes' vote and I, along with many others, will be 'hung out to dry'.

  13. Hi Velma
    No I don't think you are just having a dig, I think you are justifiably worried by what is going on; I am too, and I AM a permanent teacher. Unfortunately there are many out there who are not being kept abreast of the recent developments by the EIS reps in their schools or are not well enough informed or interested in what is going on in the wider world beyond their classroom doors. A look at today's Scotsman is enough to put the wind up any teacher with it's headline "School holidays cost parents £1,400 per child" as we are once again guilty by just being teachers.
    In the past two days I have spoken to two friends (both teachers) who know absolutely nothing about the detail of the SNCT proposals and were just about to accept when I told them what was planned; they have now voted to reject. We need to ensure that everyone we know is informed of what this deal really means for the teaching workforce; especially when taken in conjunction with the Hutton Review of public sector pensions and also the McCormac Review into McCrone, by texting, emailing and telling them about how it undermines the professionalism and goodwill of ALL teachers.
    I really, really hope that you are wrong when you say "I have this sinking feeling that the EIS will get their 'yes' vote and I, along with many others, will be 'hung out to dry" but have a similar nasty feeling about all of this. Unfortunately we would ALL be hung out to dry by this, it's just the thin edge of the wedge and the first of many attacks to come I believe.
    Best wishes
  14. Yes. Think permanent teachers unaware of the scale of the problem, mainly because they think it doesn't affect them. It will!
    Are teachers aware, for example, that supply teachers are set to earn less than supply nursery nurses? According to a recent local authority ad nursery nurses on supply would earn 19000-22000k pro-rata. Under the proposals, qualified teachers would earn 18000k, pro-rata (a drop in pay of 46.6%) EIS aware of this fact but unprepared to acknowledge it so far. Honours degree and lots of experience irrelevant apparently. Should we have gone to college and trained as nursery nurses?
    They are picking off the most vulnerable groups and relying on apathy and disinformation.
    Must inform mainstream by email, word of mouth and press. 'No' vote is essential, for both moral and financial reasons.

  15. Thank you babette for your response to my post. I was feeling quite demoralised when I wrote that. I'd just had a conversation with a colleague who seemed to have no idea (or wanted to, either) about the impending doom faced by supply teachers and the children we teach. She was unwilling to change her point of view and would not accept that the EIS would be willing to do this to some of their members. She believed the spin that things will be much worse if we don't agree to this now.
    If she is representative of EIS teachers, then people in my position have well and truly 'had it'. I know the opinion of everyone on this forum is to 'reject' but how do we get that message across. I am in the position that where I live is not where I work. The EIS where I live has not made it clear to its members the real implications of this deal but where I work, its a different story. There's the frustration!
    I tried to think of some way of getting this out into into the public domain - contacting my local paper, my local MP, councillors but don't want to give my name for fear of never getting any supply work again. Although, if the last poster is correct, then why should I bother if I'm going to be worth less than the support staff I work with.
    Feeling so depressed and abandoned[​IMG]
  16. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    I am a permanent teacher but I like to keep informed about what's is going on and as some of you know,I'm pretty opinionated. I have nearly come to blow on three occasions while speaking to colleagues in my school staffroom. It's amazing how many seemingly lovely and benevolent colleagues (females unfortunatly) seem to harbor grudges about others and have no notion of solidarity. Conquer and divide at its worst.
  17. Every teacher will be badly effected by the offer. There is an effective pay cut of 10 -15% for all tecahers over the next 2 years when you consider the rate of inflation and the extra superan contributions. The de facto cut in the holidays to produce some new kind of day which isn't a holiday but is something else will in time be something we all regret once greedy employers try to get their hands on these unallocated days. The ballot is not just about the mistreatment of supply teachers. Although supply teachers will be treated particularly badly, every teacher will be treated badly by this offer and its in every teacher's interests to REJCT the offer.
  18. Let's keep focussed on the issue. The annual income for some teachers would, through accepting this offer, be cut to such an extent fully qualified teachers face an income level over the year which does not compare with other equally qualified teachers but would compare with employees whose annual salary is set at a significantly lower level than a teacher's. That should be unacceptable to the teaching profession as a whole. It certainly is to me which is just one reason why I have voted to REJECT the offer.
  19. kibosh

    kibosh Star commenter

    I was thinking about this the other day. They can't actually see passed their own wee personal likes and dislikes. Myopic in the xtreme.
  20. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    They drive me mad. They are so self satisfied with their own lives(usually married to men who have done well) and seem to get most of their opinions from the Daily Mail.

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