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References

Discussion in 'Career clinic' started by mrjack, Mar 7, 2016.

  1. mrjack

    mrjack Occasional commenter

    HI All,
    I understand that one of your references should be from your last employer but do both references have to be teaching references ?
    Would it be unusual to have one teaching reference and one reference from somebody who was not involved in teaching ?
     
  2. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    .

    Not quite - from last employer in a post involving contact with children or young people. By which they do not mean Head of Children's Services and Education at County Hall, but your Headteacher.

    They don't have to be, but this would be more acceptable.

    Yes.

    Best wishes

    .
     
  3. anon8315

    anon8315 Established commenter

    Have you been doing something other than teaching?

    Theo, please correct me if I am wrong but hypothetically, let's say someone worked as a manager for sainsburys between Janaury 2014 to present and are looking to get back into teaching, would a sensible way to approach this be to include teaching references and to add in the letter of application something like My present manager, although not linked to teaching, is happy to provide a reference regarding my work ethic and character.
     
  4. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    .

    Yes if you wish, but only the teaching references are really important. I doubt if anyone would approach a non-teaching referee when you have two teaching ones. Which is what they want.

    Best wishes

    .
     
  5. mrjack

    mrjack Occasional commenter

    Thank you, is a Deputy Head teachers reference ok as it would be pointless my asking the head !
     
  6. wanet

    wanet Star commenter

    It is the custom to use the Head, even though in many cases it will be passed to someone else to write. It would look odd if it wasn't.
     
  7. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    I believe that a reference from your last Head is a requirement. I guess that this may be becasue only the Head would definitely have access to all information about you, including any child protection issues. Not that I am saying that this is likely to be an issue. As Wanet points out, the Head will delegate most of the writing to somebody who worked with you more closely, so it is not pointless asking the Head.
     
  8. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    .

    As @wanet and @Piranha both say, you put down the Head (after asking out of courtesy), and it is most likely that your HoD will draft it for the Head to revise if necessary and sign.

    Not to have your Headteacher is likely to cause the school to ring him/her up if they are really interested in you.

    Have you found all the applications advice articles - a score of them. Including these:

    Do I have to tell my Head I am applying elsewhere?

    Who should be my referees?

    Can I see my references?

    Can your Head write a negative reference for you? Or refuse to write one? Can you see what was written...

    Can I ask a school not to contact my referees just yet?


    Best wishes

    .
     
  9. mrjack

    mrjack Occasional commenter

    When things have broken down in a school though, through no fault of my own, I have been badly mistreated and the head has been out to get me and will give me an awful reference, the deputy on the other hand knows the situation and would give a much better / fairer reference. What's the point in me asking for a poor reference when I can get a fair one from the deputy?
     
  10. wanet

    wanet Star commenter

    I understand what you are saying, but it would seem odd to any school recieving this. Plus often the Head is rung anyway. Plus as it is normal for it to come from a Head the Deputy might put it past him anyway. Sorry that I am not being very positive for you. Try it your way. Hope that it works out.
     
  11. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    Because any head to whose school you apply will either simply ask the headteacher anyway, or bin your application on suspicion - or the deputy will pass it to the head.
     
    wanet likes this.
  12. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    @wanet and @Middlemarch are absolutely correct here.

    It must be the Head. And if it isn't and they ring him, he'll feel freer in his words on the phone than he would be in writing.

    Best wishes

    .
     
    wanet likes this.
  13. mrjack

    mrjack Occasional commenter

    Which raises another point, can a reference be negative ? I suppose, more so in what it does not say !
     
  14. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

  15. girlsurfer

    girlsurfer New commenter

    Hi Theo
    I have a couple of questions regarding this issue and I hope you can help.
    Firstly I am currently living in New Zealand and working for my Parents in Law not teaching. I have given an outside agency Human Resources Manager as my current employment reference for jobs in the UK as I thought it would not be appropriate to use my In-Laws. I have sent off my application forms but now feel I should have given another manager I work with as a reference - is it worth me contacting the school to amend this?
    Also, I gave the assistant head as a reference rather than the head from my previous school as he knew me during the duration of my employment when we had 3 different heads - is this ok?
    Thank you.
     
  16. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    There is no reason why you can't explain the circumstances, and let the school decide. I think that they will still want a reference from the Head at your last school. The reason is that they can only be sure that the Head will have access to any confidential information on your file - even an Assistant Head may not know everything. As has already been pointed out, the Head wil take advice from people who knew you better for most of the reference.
     
  17. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    .

    You have the answer there from @Piranha, which should be very helpful, @girlsurfer .

    All I can add is that next time you have a query, it's best to start a new thread as we don't always open old threeads that we've already replied to.

    Have you read this, by the way? The title may seem not relevant to you, but I think that it may be useful.

    Returning to the UK after teaching abroad

    Best wishes

    .
     
  18. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    I might be wrong here, but can't you put both the head and deputy as your two referees?
    It doesn't have to be either or does it?

    And find a third referee if there is space on the form.
     
  19. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    .

    You are not wrong. :)

    Best wishes

    .
     
  20. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    So, that's problem solved for the OP isn't it?
    Put them both down?
    Have both. And hopefully your prospective new employer will have heard all about your old head on the headteacher grapevine and just file that reference and tick the box, using the deputy's one in the selection procedure.
     

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